Re: Romans 1, the ONLY biblical text with a reference to gay
BigQueerOrganist wrote:Ok Anemic, or Enema, or whatever your name is..... here is your Biblical reference!
Romans 1:26-28
It is critical to note that Romans 1:26-27 is part of Paul's major argument in which he seeks to demonstrate not only the "fallenness" of the Gentile world but also the sinfulness of the Jews because they have failed the Torah. Paul develops his argument so that his readers first feel revulsion against "those sinful Pagans." The passage culminates (in 2:1ff) with the condemnation of those who judge others. Both Jews and Gentiles stand in need of God's redemptive activity in Jesus Christ: "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (3:23).
It is important to realize that Paul is not primarily concerned here to attack specific vices; he uses the illustrations to point to his main theological argument. This is not to overlook Paul's judgement of same-sex activity, but it does suggest that the Apostle is not "out to get them," as some people have assumed.
Even if we conclude that Paul's judgement on same-sex acts is clearly negative, this does not necessarily determine the significance of the text for us today. Moralists of Paul's day viewed homosexual practice as exploitative and driven by lust. If this was the kind of same-sex activity that Paul had in mind in Romans 1:26-27, there is a reason to question how appropriate this text is for addressing same sex relationships in which there is a mutual love and commitment.
For someone who thinks his education is above all others your knowledge of what "Aineo" means is interesting; it is Greek for "praise". My domain "aineotheos" means "praise God" in Greek. Your bastardization of my screen name is not going to win your argument.
The above section I quoted from your post is pure new age crap. First off it admits same gender sexual activity in Paul's time is viewed negatively, second it assumes Paul is referring to lust.
[19.1] The Thebans’ practice of intimacy with lovers, to speak more generally, did not have its origin, as the poets say, in the passion of Laius.34 Rather the practice grew out of deliberate policies which the lawgivers adopted in order to temper and soften the Thebans’ fiery and violent nature right from childhood. One thing they did was to introduce a major role for the flute in every aspect of work and play, and indeed they elevated the instrument to a degree of honor and preeminence. The other was to cultivate a conspicuous reverence for love in the wrestling establishments, and thereby moderate the impetuous character of the young men. [19.2] This is also the reason for their wise decision to introduce the goddess Harmony into the city.35 The goddess is said to be the child of Ares and Aphrodite, and their theory was that where combativeness and belligerence (i.e., Ares) consort and mingle with persuasion and charm (i.e., Aphrodite), all elements of society can be brought into the most harmonious and most orderly whole.
Homosexuality was promoted to "tame" the wild beast called male. This is what femanists acheived with the femanist movement.
Plato's idea of knowledge was not a modern objective pursuit of facts but an ardent search for Sophia. He learned this from his mentor Socrates. Socrates put forth the idea of reciprocal love, a concept that would have been contrary to conventional norms of the period defined by literature and artistic representations. Socrates claims an object of love may come to experience counter-love, which instills erotic desire within him. Both members of a relationship are to be active and desiring lovers, contrary to the asymmetrical relationships portrayed in the social norm. However, if guided properly, counter-love should not seek to consummate sexually, and thus Socrates's conception avoids censure from society. Desire is by its nature an active pursuer of its object. Similarly, no pursuer of wisdom can be passive. Only those that desire and strive to achieve wisdom can be called philosophers. The erotic desire can be temporarily appeased through sex, but for it to be completely satisfied one must come into the presence of another whose beauty (both physical and spiritual) calls forth personal insight. The concept of reciprocity is connected to Diotima's ascension and search of immortality through birth in beauty. Socrates avoids the charge of the exploitation of an object of love by the reciprocity that allows simultaneous though independent advancement towards higher truths. Beauty stimulates one to seek these truths in another, because unlike abstract concepts such as justice, it is accessible to our senses. Furthermore, it is only through dialectic processes that true philosophy and the search for wisdom can take place. Philosophy cannot be conducted directionally, as a teacher educating a pupil or as a text educating its reader. The dialectic may help to spark ideas within one's lover (birth in beauty), and this method allows each person to individually attain the truth for themselves with the help of others. The dialogue form of Plato's works helps to portray the erotic experience of philosophy as defined by Socrates. This reflects the dynamics of thought, and the processes of the rational soul through comparison with a relationship that expresses reciprocal eros.
Armchair philosophers use Greek philosophy to promote a sexual relationship between men based on love that is counter to what some Greek philosophers taught. So your post does not prove Paul was oppossed to just lust, he oppossed homosexuality in obedience to the God's truth as revealed in the Law (Lev 18:22).
It is important to realize that Paul is not primarily concerned here to attack specific vices; he uses the illustrations to point to his main theological argument. This is not to overlook Paul's judgement of same-sex activity, but it does suggest that the Apostle is not "out to get them," as some people have assumed.
This is the one paragraph I agree with. Paul is not "out to get them", he is out to show that "all have sinned and fall short of his glory", however "all" includes practicing homosexuals.