ArchivedThe Trinity, or 1+1+1=1Q Bliz, You are reading an awful lot into those words, but for the sake of argument I will grant your premise. Since you are using the NT to make your point, you will have no problem with me also using it to make mine. "And unto the Son(Jesus) he(God the Father) said, 'Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8.). Using your premise, we could also say that the Father has a God whom He is lesser than, since He says the throne is the Son's and also for ever and ever. "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross" (Philippians 2: 5-8.). Look at that those verses carefully. Jesus, was in the 'form of God.' Obviously this cannot be an allusion to his physical stature, correct? So what is meant by 'form?' Verse 7 says, 'and took upon him the form of a servant." So whatever his form is before he took on the form of a servant, is equal to God, but it is not physical form. It must be His ontological nature, which is equal to God. Since He was equal to God, and later 'took upon himself the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men,' this is clearly an indication that Jesus existed before He took upon himself the form of a servant (or a man) and took upon Him that form of a man. If I took upon myself the form of a man, I would have to be something other than a man in order to later take upon myself the form of a man. This is clearly indicating that Jesus is equal to God, and existed before He took upon Himself the form of a man. It goes on to say that He humbled himself, and became obedient unto death. So How would a being who is equal to God, and existed before He took upon Himself the form of a man, become obedient unto death? God cannot die, nor can God learn obedience, correct? Therefore it is not the 'form of God, being equal to God" that was obedient unto death, or humbled as a man, it was the man He took upon Himself that was humbled (as a man, not as God) and suffered death on the Cross( the Man died, not God). Yet, even as God in the form of man, He did not want to experience the death of His human nature, therefore He asked the Father, His God, to let the cup pass from Him (as a man). Jesus is God and Man, One being with two natures. Divine and Human, but never mingled. God, being infinite, could become a man, and by virtue of being perfect, He would thus perfect human nature by His presence in human form. This is what happened in Jesus. Also in the Book of Revelation we read: ". . .Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that lives, and was dead; and behold I am alive for evermore. . .(Rev 17b-18a). Who is the 'first and the last?' Isaiah 44 :6 "Thus says the LORD(YHWH, or Jehovah) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; 'I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God." Revelation 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. vs. 13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." According to those verses, the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last is coming to give to every man according to his work. He identifies Himself in verse 16 of chapter 22, saying: "I Jesus have sent my angel to testify unto you these things. . ." and in verse 20 the clincher: "He which testifies these things says, 'Surely I come quickly.' Remember who is coming? Alpha and Omega is coming, the first and the last, and who is the first and the last? Isaiah 44:6 says YHWH, or Jehovah is the first and the last. The rest of verse 20, of chapter 22 of Revelation says, "Amen. Even so. . come, Lord Jesus." Jesus is not the Father, but He is, according to the scriptures YHWH, or Jehovah. I have to admit, it doesn't make much sense, but as we have already seen, God Himself calls the Son(Jesus) God in Hebrews 1:8 and says the throne is the Son's throne for ever and ever. It may not make sense, but the scriptures teach that God is Triune, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Consider Colossians 2:2: "That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ." So why is God, and the Father distinguished in this verse. I thought the Father was God? Also, the list includes Christ, the Son. So God, AND the Father, AND Christ are 'the mystery of God.' Sounds like the Trinity to me, just as Jesus says in Matthew 28. Zach wrote: Actually it destroys your theory about Jesus being "a" god, or an angel. Why? John 17:3 says "And this is life eternal, that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." Jesus declares that there is only one true God, correct? Yet you have stated that Jesus is a mighty god. Well, if Jesus is a mighty God, is He a true God, or a false one? Jesus Himself said there was only one TRUE God, so if Jesus is just "a god" He must be a false one, and we should reject everything he says. There goes your theory by your own proof text. If God is One, as Trinitarians teach and believe, then John 17:3 does absolutely no damage to our 'theory.' Quite the opposite, it is an affirmation, that the Father and the Son are distinct, but as you yourself have said, they are both God. And, since there is only one True God, Jesus must be as much God as the Father is. This verse proves the Trinity. Trinitarians do not teach or believe that they are the same Person. This is a straw man argument, because you apparently are not familiar with the doctrine of the Trinity at all. "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;" (Eph. 2:15). To make in himself of two, One new man. What are the two? The two natures. Man, and God. Making of the two One new man, fully God, and fully Man. Therefore the sacrifice is perfect, being provided by a perfect man in hypostatic union with perfect God. In fact, anything less than God in a perfect Human, would make that Human less than perfect, like the rest of us. This is a perfect example of the NWT twisting the truth. Colossians 1:16( In a real Bible, with good translation from the original Greek) says: "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they are thrones, or dominions, or principalities or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" Whereas, your 'pernicious' NWT adds the word 'other' here to suggest that Jesus was first created and the He created all other things. This is an impossible translation given the Koine Greek language. You would do yourself a favor to heed the words of warning that God delivered about adding or subtracting from His word. "You shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish anything from it. . .(Deut. 4:2) and Revelation 22:18: ". . .If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book." This is precisely what the Watchtower tranlators have done with the Greek NT. Added, and subtracted to make the text conform to their theology. Repent of your Greek, pagan,philosophically influenced Arianism, and return unto the One true God of Scripture. Sincerely, Everett |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame