Christian/Muslim ThreadsAre there elements of paganism in the religion of Islam?Actually gerani and me did discuss these matters earlier, and let me repeat myself, I have never stated that the black stone was an idol or was considered by Muhammad as divine. What I did suggest was the posibility of pagan or polytheistic elements, as the stone clearly is pre-Islamic and would have served as a tool in pagan rites. You are correct, however, Muhammad kissing the stone makes the practice a Sunnah or at least acceptable to any Muslim. H2O wrote: As I have understood it, Islamic legend states that the stone came down at the time of Adam, had a white colour, but darked due to the sin of man. Anyway if I am wrong, do correct me. Anyway, my point is not the Islamic concept of the stone, I am concerned about the actual historical reality and practice around the stone. H2O wrote: If the stone was merely a sign marking of the beginning and end of the circumambulation, then on which reliable sources can you base your conclusion? H2O wrote: I agree with you, I never said that Muhammad ascribed divinity to the stone or worshipped it. H2O wrote: I am not so sure I agree with you on that statement, but anyway. H2O wrote:
I certainly agree with you that the stone had ancestral value, however, I am not convinced that the stone had any link what so ever to either Abraham or Adam. My point is not, that Muhammad worshipped the stone or considered it divine, my point is that the actual concept behind the stone, from its original setting was pagan. And Muhammad kissing the black stone, thus involved pagan elements into Islam, by making the practice a sunnah or permissible. Why do I say this? Because stones fallen from heaven, played a high role in ancient religions. Just look at the Aphrodite at Paphos, Cybele at Pessinus, Astarte at Byblus, and Artemis, the Diana of Ephesus. Both Aphrodite of Paphos and Diana were black meoterites. It was typical in ancient religious practice to worship these stones, or at least describe divinity to them of some kind, and even more these stones became religious centres of worship, and shrines were attached as well. My point is, why should not the black stone in the Kaba resemble anything else but the traces of ancient pagan rites and concepts. After all there is no history behind it which links the stone to the Abrahamic faith and religion. My second point is, the followers of Muhammad, were uneasy about performing this particular sunnah or practice of Muhammad, and why, my only conclusion is, they knew things were relating to elements which were not monotheistic. This also leads to further possibilities, that Muhammad indeed did engage in syncrethism and possibly transferred ancestral belief and concepts into a monotheistic framework. Peace Kai |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame