What about John 1:1?

[Aineo]

John 1:1-2
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. NAS

Let's compare these verses with two from Proverbs 8.

Proverbs 8:22-23
22 "The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23 "From everlasting I was established,
From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
NAS

Should we assume that wisdom is God's feminine counterpart and sits with God in heaven as a co-equal goddess because she was with God in the beginning? I don't know of anyone who interprets Proverbs 8 to prove the preexistence of wisdom as a divine female entity, so why interpret God's Word to be a preexistent divine male entity? God's word is His wisdom expressed in comprehensible language as well as how God created all that exists. In other words the "logos" is God's predetermined plan that existed in the beginning with God.

In John 1:14 we read that God's predetermined plan (word) became flesh. Peter expresses the same concept in Acts 2 and 1 Peter 1.

Acts 2:23
23 this Man, delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
NAS

1 st Peter 1:19-21
19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. 20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you 21 who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. NAS

Who else existed in the beginning with God based on His foreknowledge?

Romans 8:29-30
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. NAS

Ephesians 1:3-10
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, 8 which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth.
NAS

2nd Timothy 1:8-11
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, or of me His prisoner; but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, 10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher
NAS

Now let's look at how Greeks viewed the concept of "logos". The Greek philosopher Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. Rabbi's taught that God created the Torah in the beginning and created the universe through the Torah, which is God's word. So we can discern that John was using a concept that was understood by both Jews and Greeks to indicate the predetermined design and plan of God, not that the Son existed in the beginning with God and is God. This predetermined plan became flesh with the birth of the Son, who was then endowed with power when God's spirit descended and remained on Him when He was baptized by John the Baptist.

[adampastor]

I also recommend John 1:1 Caveat Lector (Reader Beware)

[Superman]

Aineo, I was wondering if you can assist me. On one of your past posts you said that "at the "NAME" of Jesus every knee will bow, not the "PERSON"

How do you explain these scriptures, I heard it on another forum:

Joel 2:32..And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the NAME of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem
shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

Joel 2:32..And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the NAME of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem
shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

1 Corinthians 1:2..Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in
every place call upon the NAME of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Isaiah 40:3..The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Matthew 3:3..For this is He that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way
of the Lord, make His paths straight.

Jerimiah 23:5..Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and
shall execute judgement and justice in the earth.

Jerimiah 23:6..In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR
RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Psalm 97:9..For thou, Lord, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

John 3:31..He that cometh from above is a above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth; He that cometh from heaven
is above all.

"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the NAME of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body."

"I lay down my life that I may take it up again… I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Jesus raised himself from the dead, and yet the bible also says that God raised Him from the dead. Jesus is God.

Psalm 102:24..I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.

Psalm 102:25..Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Psalm 102:26..They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them,
and they shall be changed:

Psalm 102:27..But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

Hebrews 1:8..But unto the Son he saith, THY THRONE, O GOD, IS FOR EVER AND EVER: A SCEPTER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THE
SCEPTER OF THY KINGDOM.

Hebrews 1:10..And, THOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING HAST LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH; AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE
WORKS OF THINE HANDS.

Isaiah 40:28..Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth
not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

John 1:3..And all things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16..For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones,
or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:

Isaiah 9:6..For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his NAME shall be called
Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 7:14..Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name
Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23..BEHOLD, A VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME
IMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, God with us.

John 3:18.. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in
NAME of the only begotten Son of God.

Philippians 2:6..Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Can you help me out with these?

Sincerely,
Superman

[Aineo]

Yehovah is not a person, Yehovah is spirit. In order to define the Trinity the word "person" came to have a distinct meaning in English and other languages for theological reasons.

13. Theology. any of the three hypostases or modes of being in the Trinity, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=person

Referring to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as persons is an invention of men as only the Son is a person since the Jesus was and is a human being. We cannot see God but people did see Jesus so just as Hebrews appealed to the name of Yehohvah who they could not see we are to appeal to the name of Jesus who was seen and will be seen at His second advent.

[Googles]

This post has been deleted in its entirety since it contains flagrant violations of our Forum Rules and tried to take this thread off topic.

[Aineo]

Googles, you had your chance on another thread to respond to what you are trying to insert in this thread. I will not allow you to obfuscate this thread like you tried to obfuscate others.

If you have something germain to this topic then post it since one more personal attack against any other member of the board will result in termination of your account.

[Googles]

No personal attack was involved, you simply dismissed and deleted what you cannot refute exegetically. No obfuscation was involved, since it is obvious that you will not admit to this fact, your next move is the obvious deletion of my posts or termination of my account.

[Aineo]

There are several on-going threads where you can wrangle over words instead of taking God at His word. This thread deals with John 1:1 and how both Jews and Greeks used and understood "logos". Both Apple Pie and you have steadfastly refused to discuss the Scriptures on this thread:
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=8204 and all you want to do is insist your definitions and use of three Hebrew words override the plain understanding of the balance of Scripture and this Googles is not only dishonest but is the same tactic used by cults that have deceived many.

Now you can toss around all the accusations you want but until you honestly address the above thread all you are telling me and those who believe God and not men is you cannot refute the Holy Spirit.

Both Apple Pie and you choose to attack me instead of discussing God's word. Apple Pie even tried to use my ex-gay status as a reason to reject the validity of God's word. I wonder if Apple Pie realizes that the early church was full of ex-gays or that there a many ex-gays who are senior pastors in every denomination that supports the Trinity.

Now you do not have any control over how this message board is managed, which means you cannot dictate what posts remain on what thread or what constitutes a personal attack. So you have just one option and that is observe our Forum Rules.

[Mister Emu]

Should we assume that wisdom is God's feminine counterpart and sits with God in heaven as a co-equal goddess because she was with God in the beginning? I don't know of anyone who interprets Proverbs 8 to prove the preexistence of wisdom as a divine female entity, so why interpret God's Word to be a preexistent divine male entity?

Red Herring. Proverbs doesn't say "wisdom" was God, John 1:1 says that the Word was God.

In other words the "logos" is God's predetermined plan that existed in the beginning with God.

So in your interpretation, an absract idea is God? According to God's word Logos is God.

Kai Logos en Theos. Those words can't be gotten around or explained away, Kai Logos en Theos, and the Word was God, and the plan was God, and the reasoning was God, and the Logos was God. No matter how you take Logos, it is according to God(that is if you believe John part of the word of God), God.

In John 1:14 we read that God's predetermined plan (word) became flesh.

Yes, this plan(as you interpret/translate) that is God, became flesh. Jesus = Logos incarnate. Logos = God. If A = B, and B = C, then A = C. Jesus = God

Now let's look at how Greeks viewed the concept of "logos".

John turned the concept of Logos on it's head when he said it came in the flesh. What to others was an abstract, John said was a being, the man Jesus the Christ.

[Aineo]

Letting the Bible explain the Bible is a red herring? Are you telling us that tradition trumps God and God's word? According to your interpretation of John 1:1f, Jesus lied in John 17:3 and Peter deceived the Jews in Acts 2. How do you go from a "predetermined plan" that is clear, concrete, factual, material, objective, physical, real, and specific to my saying God is an abstract? How do you decide John is writing that God became a man when God says He is not a man or the son of man (Numbers 23:19)? How do you go from logos = Jesus = Jesus is God when all other uses of logos in the Scriptures tell us God's logo's in sharper than any double edged sword, is wisdom, was God's method of creation, and etc.? How do you go from God referring to Himself as "I" over 6,000 times in the OT to being a "we" in the New?

The answer is by ignoring grammar, the balance of the God's truth, and appealing to men who lacked even a basic understanding of Hebrew monotheism.

[Mister Emu]

Letting the Bible explain the Bible is a red herring? Are you telling us that tradition trumps God and God's word?

Talking about the use of Wisdom personified in Proverbs eight IS a red herring. It has nothing to do with John 1.

How do you go from a "predetermined plan" that is clear, concrete, factual, material, objective, physical, real, and specific to my saying God is an abstract?

Bad use of abstract, I apologize. You still claim that an idea, a plan, IS God by your interpretation.

How do you decide John is writing that God became a man when God says He is not a man or the son of man (Numbers 23:19)?

I don't decide John wrote that God became a man, John says it quite clearly in his works. The Word was God. The Word became flesh. Therefore, God became flesh.

I see you don't refute that John straight out called Logos God, and he straight out said Jesus was Logos.

[Aineo]

God's wisdom is expressed with His words as well as seen in His creation. The word of God is wisdom, or do you deny this to be true?

Jesus was born of Mary, he did not just "become".

What you have not refuted is that in the 1st century both the Jews and the Greeks understood "logos" (dabar in Hebrew) to be the expression of God's predetermined plan for a changing universe. You are also basing a doctrine on 18 verses that is defeated in the balance of John since in this same book Jesus affirms that the Father is the only true God (17:3), that the Father is his God (John 20:17), that the Father is greater (14:28), his works bear witness of the Father's power (5:36), and etc. If Jesus was God then he would should have said so in plain language (which he did not) or he sinned by bearing false witness to the source of his life, his power, his words, and his authority.

[Mister Emu]

The word of God is wisdom, or do you deny this to be true?

I'm not sure what you mean by that, I believe the words of God are full of wisdom, but I do not believe that the Logos = wisdom personified of Proverbs 8.

Jesus was born of Mary, he did not just "become".

That was how He was made flesh.

What you have not refuted is that in the 1st century both the Jews and the Greeks understood "logos" (dabar in Hebrew) to be the expression of God's predetermined plan for a changing universe.

And John turned that upside down by saying the Logos was a being, an entity, not an idea.

If Jesus was God then he would should have said so in plain language (which he did not) or he sinned by bearing false witness to the source of his life, his power, his words, and his authority.

By being the source of the Trinity, begetting Jesus, proceeding the Holy Spirit, the Father is the source of His life, power, and authority. In the form of a servant, the Father was the source of His words.

Also, Trinitarians do not deny that the Father is the only true God, just as we don't deny that Jesus is the only true God, as well as the Holy Spirit, and all three together are the only true God.

[Aineo]

I know what Trinitarians believe, since I supported and believed in the Trinity until about 2 years ago. What led me to reject the Trinity is God's word. It was then I studied how this doctrine was developed.

What you posted is conjecture based on a weak defense of a doctrine that is easily exposed as a doctrine of men by taking John's Gospel as face value instead of pulling a couple sections of his Gospel out of context. The fact is the Bible does not teach Jesus is God.

Now, can you refute that both the Jews and the Greeks understood logos to be the expression of God's predetermined plan for a changing universe?

[Mister Emu]

What led me to reject the Trinity is God's word.

I am sorry that God's word has led you to a false belief.

taking John's Gospel as face value instead of pulling a couple sections of his Gospel out of context.

I agree, John's gospel at face value says: Logos is God and Jesus is Logos. John's Gospel is the epitome of a duality being present. To say otherwise is to take one or two verses and trying to force them on the others.

The fact is the Bible does not teach Jesus is God.

The Bible quite clearly states in many places that He is. The only way to refute this is to take seemingly contradictory verses and force an interpretation.

Now, can you refute that both the Jews and the Greeks understood logos to be the expression of God's predetermined plan for a changing universe?

I only care how John understood the Logos. As God and as Jesus.

Can YOU refute that John calls the Logos God? No, because it says it quite clearly... so explain to me how God's plan is God?

[Aineo]

John was a 1st century Jew, so what you are rejecting is historical fact. What you also have not refuted is that John never writes in plain language that Jesus is God. On the other hand John does record that the Father is the only true God. What you have done is interpret 18 verses in such a way as to contradict a straight forward declaration that the Father is the only true God.

[Mister Emu]

John was a 1st century Jew, so what you are rejecting is historical fact.

As you have pointed out, not everyone follows orthodox understanding. It is clear the John understood Logos as a Divine entity that became flesh named Jesus the Christ.

The words are plain enough for everyone the reads it objectively. Logos is God, Logos became flesh, Jesus is that flesh.

I do not interpret it to contradict any further statements within John. Especially the verse that states the Father is the only true God, as I believe that.

[Aineo]

Do you? The how is Jesus also God since the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit make up the Trinity. Now, if the Father is the only true God then Jesus and the Holy Spirit cannot also be the only true God. Or do you have a new unorthodox definition for the word "only"?

[Mister Emu]

As a trinitarian, I believe they are all the same God.

[Aineo]

Well, your position is not founded in the teachings of the apostles or the prophets. I am still waiting for you to refute that John as a Jew viewed the logos as God's predetermined plan for a changing universe. So far all you have done is dogmatically insist you are correct and history is wrong.

[Mister Emu]

From John:

Logo was God
Logos made everything
Nothing was made without Logos making it
Logos became flesh
Logos is male
Logos has glory
John the Baptist bore witness of Him
He was in the world
He made the world
The world did not know Him
He came unto his own
His own did not recieve Him
He gave people the power to become sons of God
This happens by believing His name
He has a name
Logos dwelt among "us"(John's contemporaries)
Logos's name is Jesus Christ

Logos according to John in his own words is a male being who created the world and everything else, who became flesh, has glory, and has a name by which men are made sons of God. John the Baptist bore witness of the Logos, that is Jesus the Christ.

[Aineo]

Logos affirms that the Father is the only true God, which agrees with Deuteronomy 6:4, which was the Logos' statement of faith. In other words you are contradicting the entire OT as well as the words of Jesus, Peter, Paul, and the author of Hebrews.

[Mister Emu]

Only in your view of my beliefs am I contradicting anything.

John clearly refutes the ancient understanding of Logos as an idea, a plan. John clearly refers to Logos as a male being, with a name, that is Jesus the Christ. John also in plain words says that LOGOS IS GOD.

As I said before, non-divine Jesus believers cannot get around those words. Kai Logos en theos, the inspired words of John the Apostle.

[Aineo]

On the other hand Trinitarians cannot explain away Jesus' explicit statements that contradict your interpretation of what 1st century Jews who believed the OT wrote. Now, are you going to even try to refute the cultural, theological, and philosophical background of the Bible or are you simply going to continue to beg the question?

[Mister Emu]

They don't contradict my views at all...

I have already refuted your thoughts that John followed orthodox views of Logos with his very words...

Besides the fact that I thought we weren't going to use formal debating fallacy terms, I am not begging the question, my reasoning is not circular.

[Aineo]

You are begging the question, since you have not refuted Jesus' statements recorded in John's Gospel. the Father is the "only true" God contradicts your interpretation of John 1:1-3.

[Mister Emu]

You are begging the question, since you have not refuted Jesus' statements recorded in John's Gospel.

You don't understand the term begging the question then, because, once again, my reasoning is not circular.

the Father is the "only true" God contradicts your interpretation of John 1:1-3.

The Word was God contradicts your interpretation of John 17:3(?). While John 17:3 does not contradict my interpretation of John 1:1-3.

[Aineo]

Since John 1:1-18 does not contain an explicit statement that Jesus is the word and is therefore God and your interpretation contradicts explicit statements made by Jesus, Peter, Paul, the author of Hebrews, and cannot be established in the OT you have not made your case and you are begging the question.

[Mister Emu]

Since you cannot logically refute my arguements, I accept your concession of this point.

Your reply of "Nuh uhn" is not a valid response. If you cannot logically refute the reasoned connection of the Logos to Jesus just admit it, say you'll believe what you will, and move on, I will respect that descision, in whatever manner it comes...

[Aineo]

You have illogically tried to draw a conclusion the can be refuted by explicit statements found only in John's Gospel. And like all Catholics and Catholic wantabes who have posted to this message board you claim victory when you have not won a victory.

Now are you going to address the cultural, theological, and philosophical background and foundation of those who actually wrote the Bible or just appeal to pagan Greeks influenced by Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, and Greek mythology?

[Mister Emu]

I have no appealed to anything but the text of the Bible, which can reasonably be read to question your position, I have given logical reasons for understanding Jesus the Christ to be the Word in John 1, and you have refused to rebut those with anything resembling a reasoned arguement.

You continue to say I am begging the question, without substantiating such a claim. Which you cannot, because I am not using circular logic.

My last post was in actuality an attempt to garner a reasoned rebuttal, so I would have something to debate, your personal interpretation of John 17:3 is not a reasoned rebuttal, it is an a priori assumption of your correctness, and the wording of the verse does not rule out my beliefs.

Since you obviously beleive that the cultural, theological, and philosophical background of the Apostles is at odds with my understanding of John 1:1 please elucidate. How does the Apostle John's theological and philosophical outlook refute my understanding of his words? I will accept any writing that can be reasonably attributed to him or a close companion explaining his philosophical/theological outlook that plainly speaks against my views, ideally these would be after and not before Christ's death and ressurection...

[Aineo]

Now you are being the typical Catholic who refuses to address reasonable rebuttals that are based in Hebrew thought, the Bible, and are also logical.

I have shown you that both the Jews and the Greeks viewed "logos" as God's predetermined plan. You have yet to rebut this. You have also avoided how logos is translated in other verses. You have decided based on the tradition of men that the logos of John 1:1 is Jesus even though John never writes that the logos is the preexistent Jesus. The "logos" became flesh. Well in Genesis 1 the "logos" became the created universe when God spoke all that is seen and unseen into existence because of His predetermined plan.

[Aineo]

What you are appealing to Mister Emu, is one English word used in a translation of one Greek word used by a Jew communicating God's truth to both Jews and Greeks.

So lets look at how Jews understood the concept of "logos":
http://www.torahofmessiah.com/preexistence.html
The Gnostic view of "logos":
http://www.gnosticchristianity.com/ch3.htm
More on "logos"
http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/min ... udaism.htm
http://mb-soft.com/believe/text/logos.htm
http://godheadstudyhist.blogspot.com/20 ... ights.html
http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~funkk/ ... logos.html
http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Aud ... rt-One.htm
http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/aud ... rt-Two.htm

I can post more links if you like, but I think the above will confirm that in the minds of 1st century Jews and Greeks "logos" did not connote "word" but the reasoning of God/the predetermined plan of God. You will also find that although "logos" can be translated "word", the overwhelming vernacular use of "logos" was "rational reasoning", not the English word "word". Which brings up another point. "Logos" is used 330 times in the NT and of those 330 times "logos" is translated "word" 225 times, this leaves 105 where another English word is used or it is left untranslated.

So you see Mister Emu, I have a rational, logical, and historical rebuttal for you dogmatic stance (interpretation) that (as I posted) is not supported by the balance of John's Gospel where Jesus attributes all he does and says to God (logos).

I await your rebuttal.

[webmaster]

From John:
Logos according to John in his own words is a male being who created the world and everything else, who became flesh, has glory, and has a name by which men are made sons of God. John the Baptist bore witness of the Logos, that is Jesus the Christ.

Read John 1:1-6
http://www.recyclethebible.com/bible/index.php

[Iblis]

Let me also add to this debate the fact that the Greek word theos doesn't necessarily mean god. It can also carry the meaning of magistrate (when accompanied by the definite article it does mean god). John 1:1 could thus be translated: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a magistrate. If this seems a strange reading then keep in mind that is called King many many times, we're told he has a kingdom, and he himself always places himself in a subservient position to god. Sounds not like a god but like a magistrate. IIRC, Satan is also called a god, but the word used is theos. No Christian thinks Satan is god. In this verse the word theos is interpreted as magistrate instead of god.

[Aineo]

However, your interpretation ignores Greek grammar. John 1:1 is a copulative sentence where the subject is "logos".

[Aineo]

Keep in mind also, that biblicalunitarian.com would say,

Although context is the final arbiter, it is almost always the case in the New Testament that when “God” refers to the Father, the definite article appears in the Greek text (this article can be seen only in the Greek text, it is never translated into English).

Yes, context is very important. There cannot be two God's.

Since the definite article is missing from the second occurrence of “theos” (“God,”) the usual meaning would be “god” or “divine.”

That's nice and all, but there's one problem:

"No indication for an indefinite article is presented, therefore the correct rendering is 'The Word was God.' (Quoted earlier as well).

I am not Greek by the way. How do you suppose we resolve this problem of he said, she said?
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 3717f465bf

We resolve this problem by putting John's prologue in the full context of John's Gospel as well as in the full context of the Scriptures and put your quote from Biblical Unitarian in its full context.

The renowned Trinitarian scholar, John Lightfoot, writes:

The word logos then, denoting both “reason” and “speech,” was a philosophical term adopted by Alexandrian Judaism before St. Paul wrote, to express the manifestation of the Unseen God in the creation and government of the World. It included all modes by which God makes Himself known to man. As His reason, it denoted His purpose or design; as His speech, it implied His revelation. Christian teachers, when they adopted this term, exalted and fixed its meaning by attaching to it two precise and definite ideas: (1) “The Word is a Divine Person,” (2) “The Word became incarnate in Jesus Christ.” It is obvious that these two propositions must have altered materially the significance of all the subordinate terms connected with the idea of the logos. [17]

Have you studied Proverbs 8, and if you have do you interpret "wisdom" as a female goddess that created the world?

Proverbs 8:22-31

22 "The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23 "From everlasting I was established,
From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
24 "When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no springs abounding with water.
25 "Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills I was brought forth;
26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields,
Nor the first dust of the world.
27 "When He established the heavens, I was there,
When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,
28 When He made firm the skies above,
When the springs of the deep became fixed,
29 When He set for the sea its boundary,
So that the water should not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman;
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth,
And having my delight in the sons of men.
NAS

By interpreting John's prologue to mean the "logos" is a person and not God's "reasoning" and "predetermined plan", Trinitarians introduce contradiction into this Gospel since Jesus plainly states in John 17:3 that the Father is the only true God.

Also Unitarians would say that Satan is the god of this "age", not that Satan is the god of this "world". Here we have another case where Trinitarian translators have redefined a Greek word.

NT:165

aioon, aioonos, ho

In Greek authors:

A. age

B. an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity,

Hence, in the N.T. used:

1. forever

a. universally: forever, John 6:51,58

with a negation: never, John 4:14
b. in hyperbolic and popular usage: from the most ancient time down (within the memory of man), from of old, Luke 1:70
2. the worlds, the universe, i. e. the aggregate of things contained in time
3. this age Matthew 13:22; the future age Luke 20:35; i. e., the age after the return of Christ in majesty, the period of the consummate establishment of the divine kingdom and all its blessings
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 2000 by Biblesoft)

Another contradiction that "logos" = "divine person" is that the Father explicitly tells us that He and He alone created all that exists and is the only God (see this thread: "My sheep hear My voice").

Peter's sermon in Acts 2 supports "logos" as God's "predetermined plan" for the salvation of mankind.

Acts 2:23 ".. this Man, delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. NAS

[Alpha]

I believe Aineo makes a good point in this thread. For one to interpret the Word = God, that's like saying Jesus = Resurrection, when Christ said to Martha "I am the resurrection." Does that mean that Christ is the physical act of resurrecting or that IN Christ is given the power (by the Father) to resurrect?