Aineo wrote:
Apple Pie, for a person of intelligence your last post calls your intelligence and credibility into question. First, the fact translators of the NAS and other modern versions capitalize "him" when referring to Jesus does not make Him God. The first English translations of the Scripture did not capitalize any pronoun that referred to God or Jesus, which is also true of the Greek manuscripts, so that comment is ludicrous.
You sound upset…Robert…
Second, you appeal to a triune greeting in Revelation but have chosen to ignore this:
Quote:
Revelation 1:4-6
Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne; 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us, and released us from our sins by His blood, 6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father; to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. NAS
Does God have a God? Now you can appeal to trinitarian interpretations of Scripture that ignore the obvious meaning of "His God", however by doing so you expose that the plain meaning of Scripture is immaterial to you just as the plain meaning of Scripture was immaterial to Origen and those who developed the doctrine of the Trinity.
A couple things…
First of all, thanks for acknowledging the Triune greeting that commences Revelation.
Secondly, please detail to us how this verse negates the belief in a Triune Creator God?
Trinitarians take into consideration the sum total of all scriptures.
We don’t pick and choose like others seem to do...
As to elohiym, following are just a few Scriptures that translate "elohiym" in the singular.
Quote:
Exodus 7:1
1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
KJV
Judges 9:27
27 And they went out into the fields, and gathered their vineyards, and trode the grapes, and made merry, and went into the house of their god, and did eat and drink, and cursed Abimelech. KJV
If you have access to an Englishman's Concordance you can look up all the Scriptures that contain Strong's #430 for yourself.
And….?
How did I refute your Shema exegesis?
Where did you “refute” our Shema exegesis…?
Really Apple Pie, your Shema exegesis does not work in Greek since theos, heis, and monos do not indicate a compound unity.
The fact that Jesus directly quoted the Hebrew scriptures in Greek tells us that The Shema’s properties of a singular and plural God hold to that of the Greek Theos.
Jesus who was a Jew taught God's truth and explained His own words.
Indeed…
So why did Jesus teach the Shema is the most important part of the Law?
Because of the Shema’s uniplural qualities.
Quote:
John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent. NAS
Also to appeal to "kai" to show that a connective conjunction indicates the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in substance and nature is ludicrous.
Not at all…
Revelation was given by the Father to an angel who then communicated Revelation to John.
Then why is John rebuked twice for prostrating at the feet of an angel – but not at the feet of Jesus?
Only God is prostrated to…
All this triune greeting tells us is that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit work in and with true believers to accomplish God’s predetermined plan for our salvation.
Hence, the Trinity…
Tell us Apple Pie what does classic Arabic have to do with God’s word?
The classic Arabic of the Koran also proclaims the concept of the Biblical Trinity….and that Jesus is God Almighty…..and that He was Crucified….and that He was Resurrected….etc, etc…
Think of it as a 1300 year old extra-Biblical confirmation to the Trinity.
We are discussing Christianity not Islam
Who’s discussing Islam?
and Jews view the use of “elohiym” as a plural of majesty, which as I posted above is how modern trinitarian scholars now understand this Hebrew word.
Again…
“Plural of Majesty” does not exist in classic Hebrew.
Nor does it exist anywhere in the ancient near east.
Period.
Thanks…