Archivedpredestination questions :: Re: beads and CantwaittodieRe: beads and Cantwaittodie The reason why atheists have trouble with the concept of God's "foreknowledge" is that they conceptualize God as existing and working within physical limitations. Based on this line of thinking, they conclude that God must predestine the future in order to know what will happen. After all, atheists are materialists, therefore they do not truly consider the possibility of transcendent realities or beings. No, just because God possesses foreknowledge of the future does not mean that God predestined the future. In an abstract sense, the future is already fixed in place. Certain unknown future events are going to happen, thus, in a certain sense, these unknown future events are inevitable. Does that mean that the unknown events in question were predestined to happen? No, because unknown future events are inevitably going to happen within the cause and effect reality we live in. Now let us apply this to God and his foreknowledge. We exist and function in a limited, linear state of being while God exists in a non-linear, unlimited state that is often called "divine timelessness." More specifically, God exists outside of the linear nature and limitations of physical reality, called "time," and observes everything from outside the "walls" of "time." Thus, to God, there is no "future," for he sees the "past," "present," and "future" or the complete linear line of physical events all at once. So what we label as "what will be" is actually "what is" to God, for he observes everything as we observe the present. Thus, God observes the inevitable progression of inevitable unknown future events for what they are really are. To us, making decisions is an unpredictable process because we cannot see beyond the "in the present" "chamber" of cause and effect. We only see the "present" or a certain part within this process. However, to God, every decision is already made because he sees all cause and effect without the "walls" of "time." Agreed.
Yes, Ephesians 1:4-5, 11 does show God predestining those who would be in Christ by his will. However, these verses do not define how or by what basis this predestination is taking place. To get a Scriptural answer that fills this gap, one must appeal to Romans 8:29-30. Romans 8 [NIV] 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. *See also 1 Peter 1:2, Ephesians 1:4-5, Ephesians 1:11, etc. Verse 29 says that God foreknew with the addition of predestination. In other words, within his foreknowledge God also predestined. Knowledge came before action. And God started by foreknowing those that would respond to his call. However, one must note that verse 30 says that those God predestined he will also call. This means that not all men are called, but those who are predestined within God's foreknowledge are called. In examining the contrast between verse 29 and 30, one must note that foreknowledge is the key. God starts with intellectual foreknowledge about certain individuals. And individuals are defined by their actions. Thus, within his foreknowledge, God is picking people based on their future actions. And it is logical to assume that God would pick people who would want to seek him and seek him. At this point one might object by saying that even if God knows who will answer his call and reject it, he is still not giving people the chance to actually make the choice because their actions are already known. However, from the perspective of God's divine timelessness, his foreknowledge encompasses the inevitabilities of our choices given all the possibilities of the future and man's nature. In addition, one must observe that Romans 8:29-30 does not speak of predestining any choices or actions. Rather, it predestines events that surround future choices and are based on those choices, thereby making predestination concurrently operate beside free will. At this point one must differentiate between the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 16:8-11) and God's call (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14). The conviction of the Holy Spirit is universal, but God's call is selective. This is because only select people will accept the conviction of the Holy Spirit, thereby getting the predestined call from God. Thus, within Scripture, one finds that God predestines events (Acts 4:27-28, Romans 8:30, etc.) but still allows free will choice (1 Chronicles 29:9, Psalm 54:6, Exodus 10:27, Exodus 35:5, Dueteronomy 1:26, Judges 5:9, 2 Samuel 6:10, etc.). Thus, free will choice and predestination work in harmony within Scripture. First, let us read these two verses in modern English. We do not speak old English, so why should we read Scripture in old English? Romans 9 [NIV] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? 22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? Since Romans 9:21 uses the potter and clay analogy, one must interpret this verse accordingly. When a potter makes pots, he does not simply shape clay into pots. Instead, the potter starts by shaping clay, with a product in mind. Then the potter puts the shaped clay into an oven, so that the clay will harden into its pot shape. However, while in the oven, some of the pots may break, distort, or take on bad colors, while others may turn out as intended. Then the potter removes the pots from the oven and inspects them. The pots that are rejected are shattered, then thrown into the discard heap. Likewise, God creates people with certain materials, while having goals for them in mind. Then he puts them into the world to develop them. While in the world, some of them develop and change for the better, while others develop and change for the worse. Then, when removed from the world, God judges the results. The people that are rejected are condemned, then thrown into hell. Thus, the potter and clay analogy allows for free will. Agreed. |
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