ArchivedHebrews 6:4-6 and OSASbeads wrote:Aineo wrote:I don't disagree with however, the vine parable gives us more information since branches that are on the vine that do not produce fruit are pruned off and burned so you have someone who was saved that does not reach heaven. Or to use the sower parable these are the good seeds that fall among the tares and after taking root are chocked out by the enemy.
If we take another look at the vine passage that you are referring to, I think we can clear this up.
- John 15:1-6
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
From what I see, God (who is the only one who can send someone to hell) is not the one doing the burning here. The verse says that men are the ones who gather up these unfruitful branches and burn them. Since men can't send anyone to hell, I think we're safe to conclude that the burning that men do is basically holding these unfruitful branches up against what they have been preaching but not practicing, thus exposing their hypocrisy. God casts these branches forth (not away) to be judged by the world and found as hypocrites. Perhaps, in God's infinite wisdom, He knows that this is the only thing that will cause the unfruitful to turn around and become fruitful again.
If we look at another passage, we say that God does do a burning of His own.
- 1 Cor 3:13-15
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
God burns everyone in the final judgments to see whether their works will stand. Obviously, the works of the unsaved will not. But some of the works of the righteous will not stand either. But - look at the verse - their works will burn, but they will still be saved. This burning, as it relates to Christians, is not to determine their eternal fate. It is to determine their rewards (vs. 14).
Just for reference
John 15
1.
|1473| I(Jesus)
|1510| am
|3588| the
|0288| vine
|0228| true,
|2532| and
|3588| the
|3962| Father(God)
|3427| of me
|3588| the
|1092| Vinedresser
|2076| is.
2.
|3956| Every
|2814| branch
|1722| in
|1698| me(Jesus)
|3361| not
|5342| producing
|2590| fruit,
|0142| He(God) takes
|0846| it.
|2532| And
|3956| each
|3588| the
|2590| fruit
|5342| producing,
|2508| He(God) prunes
|0846| it
|2443| so that
|4119| more
|2590| fruit
|5342| it may produce.
3.
|2235| Now
|5210| you(YES YOU)
|2513| pruned
|2073| are
|1223| because
|3588| of the
|3004| word
|3739| which
|2980| I(Jesus) have spoken
|5213| to you(YES YOU).
4.
|3306| Remain
|1722| in
|1698| me(Jesus),
|2504| and I(Jesus)
|1722| in
|5213| you(YES YOU).
|2531| As
|3588| the
|2814| branch
|3756| not
|1410| is able
|2590| fruit
|5342| to produce
|0575| from
|1438| itself
|3362| unless
|3306| it remains
|1722| on
|3588| the
|0288| vine(Jesus is the Vine),
|3779| so
|3761| neither
|5210| you(YES YOU)
|1437| unless
|3361| -
|1722| in
|1698| me(Jesus)
|3306| you(YES YOU) remain.
5.
|1473| I(Jesus)
|1510| am
|3588| the
|0288| vine;(He repeats it a 2nd time)
|5210| you(YES YOU)
|9999| {are}
|3588| the
|2814| branches.
|3588| He(YES YOU) who
|3306| remains
|1700| in
|1698| me(Jesus),
|2504| and I(Jesus)
|1722| in
|0846| him(YES YOU),
|3778| this one
|5322| produces
|2590| fruit
|4183| much,
|3754| because
|5565| apart
|1700| from me(Jesus)
|3756| not
|1410| you(YES YOU) can
|4160| do
|3762| nothing!
6.
|3362| Unless
|5100| someone(YES YOU)
|3306| remains
|1722| in
|1698| me(Jesus),
|0906| he(YES YOU) is thrown
|1854| out
|5613| like
|3588| the
|2814| branch,
|2532| and
|3583| is withered,
|2532| and
|4863| they gather
|0846| them
|2532| and
|1519| into
|4442| a fire
|0906| they throw,
|2532| and
|2545| they are burned(YES YOU!).
7.
|1437| If
|3306| you(YES YOU) remain
|1700| in
|1698| me(Jesus),
|2532| and
|3588| the
|4487| words
|3450| of me(Jesus)
|1722| in
|5213| you(YES YOU)
|3306| remain,
|3739| whatever
|1437| -
|2309| you(YES YOU) desire
|0154| you(YES YOU) will ask
|2532| and
|1096| it will happen
|5213| for you(YES YOU).
8.
|1722| In
|5129| this
|1392| is glorified
|3588| the
|3962| Father(God)
|3450| of me(Jesus),
|2443| so that
|2590| fruit
|4183| much
|5342| you(YES YOU) will produce,
|2532| and
|2096| you(YES YOU) will be
|1698| to me(Jesus)
|3101| followers.
Morris LIT
| View Parent Message View dfilename Return Home |