beads wrote:First off, you quoted the statement David made about the passage in Jude, but the you didn't respond to it - you completely ignored it. What's up with that?
Because it doesn't apply because in Jude 19 it says those who don't have the Spirit "sensual, having not the Spirit". If you don't have the Holy Spirit then you are not saved. We are talking about who have the Spirit and are or was Christians.
beads wrote:Second, you say that the Tares and the Wheat both receive the Gospel. As I read the parable, that's not the conclusion that I come to at all. First off, you're wrong in saying that the seed (implying, all the seed) is the Gospel. The parable is clear that the sower sows good seed while the enemy sows tares (vss. 24 and 25). So there are two types of seed - good seed and tares. The good seed, and the good seed alone, is the Gospel. The tares are sown by the enemy, and they represent that which is not the Gospel. The tares do not receive the good seed, because the tares weren't there when the good seed was sown. Only the wheat receives the Gospel, and only the wheat are saved, and there is no mention of those that have received the gospel then turning around and rejecting it (a wheat turning into a tare).
In the explanation of the parable by Jesus, you're missing one big thing. The tares and the wheat are not what is doing the receiving - the field is. The field is the world. The world produces two fruits, then - wheat and tares; christians and non-christians. Nowhere in the parable or the explanation of it is there any hint of a wheat turning back into a tare. Interestingly, there is also no hint of a tare turning into a wheat - which I believe is symbolic of the fact that the elect of God were chosen before the foundation of the world.
I'd be interested to hear your commentary on the parable, as opposed to mine. You can post the verses all you want, but I'd like to know how you get from the verses to what you believe.
I am still amazed at why there needs to be a commentary on what the Bible says. But since You asked for one I'll try to give you a short one.
In Matthew 13 Jesus follows 1 complete train of thought.
Jesus is on a boat speaking to a whole multitude of people on the shore.
Matthew 13:3-9 is the Parable of the Sower in public.
Matthew 13:18-23 is the explanation of the Parable of the Sower in private.
From this we can conclude that the SEED is the Gospel the aka "Word of the Kingdom of Heaven"!
Verse 19 is those who just hears the Gospel but don't understand it and the devil takes what little there was away.
Verse 20 is those who just hears the Gospel and with Joy receives it but fall when tribulation or persecution ariseth!
Verse 22 is those who just hears the Gospel and accepts it but fall because of sin!
Verse 23 is those who just hears the Gospel and accepts it because it falls upon a good heart!
Those in verse 20,22, and 23 all receive the Gospel and accepts it. They are saved and receive the Holy Spirit.
Those in verse 20 and 22 are spoken of by Paul in Hebrews 6:4-6.
Matthew 13
The Parable of the Sower
3. And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4. And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5. Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6. And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8. But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The Explanation of the Parable of the Sower
18. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Next Jesus speaks about The Parable of the Wheat and Tares ~ Matthew 13:24-30.
We have to ask ourselves has the seed wheat the Gospel aka "Word of the Kingdom of Heaven" changed in verses 24-30?
The answer would have to be no.
Jesus continues the thought of the Parable of the Sower and expounds upon it.
So what is the other seed planted in verse 25 that is the tares and who plants them?
These seeds would have to be something similiar to the wheat seeds in that they both grow and speak of the "Word of the Kingdom of Heaven" so that people will accept it. Problem is that it's a false Gospel. People believe this fake Gospel and they are the tares.
The parable of the tares of the field is explained in verses 36-43 and clearly shows it is a seed planted by the devil.
A seed that is not Islam or Buddha but a Fake Gospel Seed based upon the aka "Word of the Kingdom of Heaven".
I am sure we can debate the exact details of who we think this group is but I suspect it's a Lot of groups.
Some closer to home then we might think even including Preacheritis!
http://www.bible-infonet.org/ff/article ... _08_26.htm
The next problem we encounter is in verse 30 because it Clearly says BOTH of these(Fake Seeds and True Seeds) will be harvested at the same time. "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." We know that both Paul and Jesus speaks about a harvest aka rapture. We also know in the rapture that unbelievers will be left behind. Remember 1 is taken and 1 is left behind.
We also know that Revelation 14:14 speaks about a Harvest that fits perfectly in the Parable of the wheat and the tares.
But before we get there less look at something interesting....
Revelation 10
The 7th last trumpet has yet to sound
7. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
From Revelation 10 to 14 is what is called I suppose a change in the thought process. The concepts in between covers points from before Jesus was born in Chapter 12 to even our current time and even to the future. It explains a lot of detail about the Beast and etc etc
Revelation 15 covers the start of the seven last plagues via the Vials.
So where is the 7th trumpet?
The 6th angel sounded his in Revelation 9:13 "And the sixth angel sounded".
So we have the 6th trumpet in Rev 9.
The announcement of the 7th trumpet in Rev 10:7 as already stated above was to sound.
I think Paul explains it best
1 Corinthians 15
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The 7th trumpet
Revelation 14
The 2 Harvest
14. And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
1st Wheat
16. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
2nd Tares
17. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
The Parable of the Wheat and Tares
24. Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28. He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
If you have followed this so far then the following parables will fit right into place as to what Jesus is talking about in all The Parable of the kingdom of heaven is like..........
The Parable of the kingdom of heaven is like a Mustard Seed
31. Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
32. Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
The Parable of the kingdom of heaven is like leaven
33. Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
36. Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38. The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39. The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42. And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field
44. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man seeking treasure
45. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
46. Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a man fishing
47. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48. Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
The ending example of the kingdom of heaven
49. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50. And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 22
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a king which made a marriage for his son
2. The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3. And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6. And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7. But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8. Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12. And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14. For many are called, but few are chosen.
Explained and in context but not in Jude!
For many are called, but few are chosen!