Morgan wrote:Aineo,
I know, I know. Well... the anti-gay ones will, at least. Those without an agenda will more often say things like "gee, I didn't choose to be straight, I guess you probably didn't choose to be gay." Sensible things.
Episcopalian for Schism wrote:You were equating a behavior to an immutable characteristic, that was my only point.
Since I regard homosexuality, as an orientation, to be immutable, I believe it's a valid comparison.
And here is where we part company. I also see homosexuality as an orientation however, not an immutable orientation in all gay people. Although I agree you do not choose a gay orientation you can choose not to act on it.
Since there is no possibility of me marrying a member of the opposite sex, I am effectively barred from marriage. The real problem is that the basis for that prohibition is religious beliefs that I don't share. Using a badly-designed study to stereotype the group I'm part of, and arguing that we should not be granted the right to marriage because we will "erode" the institution -- as if heterosexuals hadn't done a perfectly good job of that already -- is simply adding insult to injury.
I believe you need ot change "possibility" to "probability" since there are men and women with a gay orientation who have chosen to marry. As to your statement that religious beliefs is the the only reason for prohibiting gay marriages that is incorrect. Many cultures and societies that did not prohibit homosexuality also prohibited gay unions.
Episcopalian wrote:If you cease to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex then yes, that’s a good start. Have you tried that yet?
Yeah. I didn't even consciously realize that I was gay, I was trying so hard. In retrospect, I was sexually attracted to several members of the same sex, during those five years... but I always managed to convince myself that I didn't feel anything, that I felt something else, or that everyone felt that way sometimes and it didn't mean anything.
It doesn't go away for <I>trying.</I> I do not deliberately "direct" my sexual desire toward anyone... but there's only one direction it will go in, and that is true regardless of whether or not I follow.
This may be true for you but is it true for all people with a gay orientation? Gay activists call the ex-gay movement a fraud, when in fact it is not, simply because to acknowledge that some people want to and have changed weakens their arguement that homosexuality is innate and immutable.
The gay agenda is bigoted in this respect and refuses to respect our side of this issue.