Linda, since you quoted my response to your post in the Prayer Forum, why did you avoid my question concerning John 17:3 and Peter’s sermon in Acts 2? I am willing to respond to your questions, but unless you are willing to respond to mine that I will not waste my time as I did on the following threads:
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=7799
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=7869
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=7710
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=7727
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=7712
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=7720
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=7650
If you take the time to read all of the above you will find that for the most part my questions went unanswered, which only confirms my decision to take “every word that precedes from the mouth of God” into account to expose false doctrines and beliefs that are based on the tradition of men that include private interpretations of God’s word.
Now you asked my why I now reject the Trinity, so let me start there and then I will respond to some of your Scriptures.
Exodus 20:3-6
3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
NAS
Deuteronomy 5:7-10
7'You shall have no other gods before Me.
8'You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 9'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. NAS
Deuteronomy 6:4
4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! NAS
Numbers 23:19
19 "God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? NAS
John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent. NAS
Acts 2:14-40
14 But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea, and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give heed to my words. 15 "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; 16 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
17'And it shall be in the last days,' God says,'That I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all mankind; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams; 18 Even upon My bondslaves, both men and women, I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit And they shall prophesy. 19'And I will grant wonders in the sky above, And signs on the earth beneath, Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke. 20'The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come. 21'And it shall be, that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.'
22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 23 this Man, delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24 "And God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. 25 "For David says of Him,
'I was always beholding the Lord in my presence; For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. 26'Therefore my heart was glad and my tongue exulted; Moreover my flesh also will abide in hope; 27 Because Thou wilt not abandon my soul to Hades, Nor allow Thy Holy One to undergo decay. 28'Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; Thou wilt make me full of gladness with Thy presence.'
29 "Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 "And so, because he was a prophet, and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants upon his throne, 31 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh suffer decay. 32 "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. 33 "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. 34 "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:
'The Lord said to my Lord,"Sit at My right hand, 35 Until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet. "'
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ-- this Jesus whom you crucified."
37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to Himself." 40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" NAS
Acts 5:31-32
31 "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him." NAS
Acts 13:23-24
23 "From the offspring of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus, 24 after John had proclaimed before His coming a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. NAS
Romans 5:15
15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. NAS
1 Timothy 2:5-7
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time. 7 And for this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. NAS
Zachariah does not teach the Messiah is God.
Matthew 1:23 is a quote from Isaiah 7:4 and refers to the Messiah. However, Joseph and Mary name the Lord “Yehoshuah”, which means God is salvation. The fact the Messiah will be called Immanuel does not mean the Lord is Immanuel. Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and the exact representation of God’s nature (Hebrews 1:3). Neither of these verse teach that Jesus is God.
Now, you posted that Jesus broke the Sabbath, now go back and read Matthew 12:1-8 again. The Pharisees accused the Lord’s disciples of breaking the traditional rules not found in the Law, which is why Jesus said His disciples were blameless. As to Jesus being the Lord of the Sabbath, as God’s anointed King, appointed High Priest, and etc. He is the Lord of the Sabbath even though He is a man.
Also take note that in Matthew 28 Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of Man, which was His favorite self-designation, which can be verified by checking a concordance. Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of Man about 160 times but referred to Himself as the Son of God 4 times (all 4 are in John’s Gospel). Now read Numbers 23:19.
As to John 1:1-18, we have to understand how 1st century Greeks and Jews understood the concept of “logos” and put these 18 verses in context with the whole of John’s Gospel. If your interpretation of John 1:1-18 is correct then John contradicts himself.
John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent. NAS
John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren, and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" NAS
Does God have a God? If Jesus is God why did He pray that the Father is the only true God? So how did 1st century Greeks and Jews understand “logos”? To answer this question I will refer you to Philo of Alexandria who was a Hellenistic Jew who used the Greek philosophical understanding of “logos” to explain Jewish monotheism to Greeks. An over simplified explanation is that “logos” is the plan of God. Now since our words explain who we are and as such are what we are, when we understand that God’s word that became flesh is God’s predetermined plan for the salvation of mankind (Acts 2:23) we then understand that the Trinitarian traditional view of John 1:1-18 is incorrect.
Is Jesus equal with God? No. Jesus is God’s agent on earth. In order to understand why the Pharisees thought Jesus was claiming to be God you have to understand the Hebrew concept of the law of agency, which states that the agent of any person has all the rights, designations, authority, and etc. of his principle who in this case is God.
The Pharisees jumped to conclusions because God partially hardened their understanding (Romans 11:25-26).
Did Jesus claim to be God when He said “before Abraham was I am”? Not really since Exodus 3:13 is mistranslated:
What Is God's Name?
gp89» We must go back to the book of Exodus to find God magnifying and revealing His Name to Moses:
Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" (Exo 3:13)
And God answered the question:
"I will be that I will be." (Exo 3:14)
[ Hebrew = ]
gp90» This is the literal translation from the Hebrew text. But in the King James Version it reads: "I am that I am." The majority of English Bibles translates it this way. But it is a wrong translation. I repeat, the "I am" translation is incorrect. In the note for Exodus 3:14 in the American Standard Version it correctly says the verse is: I will be that I will be. In a footnote for The NIV Study Bible, it has I will be what I will be.
gp91» In most Hebrew lexicons it shows that this phrase in Exodus 3:14 should be translated, I will be that I will be, or I will be who I will be.
gp92» In the Englishman's Hebrew-English Old Testament, by Joseph Magil (printed by Zondervan in 1974), Exodus 3:14 reads: I will be that I will be.
gp93» According to The Pentateuch And Haftorahs: Hebrew Text, English Translation And Commentary, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz, C. H. (former Chief Rabbi), published by Soncino Press, London (1956), in its commentary it states: "Most moderns follow Rashi in rendering [Hebrew - ehyeh asher ehyeh] 'I will be what I will be.'"
http://becomingone.org/gp/gp1b.htm
”The Father and I are one”, does not prove the deity of Jesus since after we believe and are saved we are one with the Father and the Son (read John 17).
Thomas' exclamation that Jesus is his Lord and God must be understood in light of Hebrew culture, which includes understanding how Jesus used the "god". I brought up the Hebrew law of agency and Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6 when He affirmed He is the Son of God (He did not say He is God).
Hebrews 1:9 reads "Therefore God, thy God", so again does God have a God? Also verses 8-9 are quoted from Psalm 45, so the Jews who read these verses would have understood there context. The author of Hebrews does not teach Jesus is God in these verses.
Hebrews 1:10 is a quote from Psalm 102 and like the above the Jews would have understood the context of what was quoted:
Psalms 102:24-28
24 I say, "O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days,
Thy years are throughout all generations.
25 "Of old Thou didst found the earth;
And the heavens are the work of Thy hands. 26 "Even they will perish, but Thou dost endure;
And all of them will wear out like a garment;
Like clothing Thou wilt change them, and they will be changed.
27 "But Thou art the same,
And Thy years will not come to an end.
28 "The children of Thy servants will continue,
And their descendants will be established before Thee."
NAS
Does God have a God?
Revelation 1:8 are the words of Yehovah, not Jesus. Read vs. 9, which starts the record of John's vision. It is a leap of logic to assume that John would record that Jesus is "Lord God almighty" in Revelation when he never equates Jesus with "Lord God almighty" in his Gospel or his epistles.
Jesus is the beginning and end of God's plan for the salvation of mankind, so to assume that "beginning and end" equates to the Alpha and Omega is an assumption that is not supported by the context of Revelation or the whole word of God.
Now lets look at the history of the Trinity. Justin Martyr was the first to propose that Jesus is God, but Justin Martyr did not believe in a triune God, he taught a binitarian (two in one, not three in one). Tertullian introducted the concept of "trinitas" in 200 A.D. Clement of Alexandria introduced Plantonism and other Greek philosopies as tools to interpret Scripture when he presided over the School of Alexandria. Origen who was influenced by Clement took over the School of Alexandria and further developed Clements ideas. Origen was without doubt one of the most influencial of the early ECF's.
Origen’s writings were some of the most influential in the early church. He developed more fully Philo’s and Clement’s ideas of allegorical interpretation, understanding three levels of interpretation within a text that corresponded to three aspects of the human being. Literal, moral, and spiritual meanings corresponded to the body, soul, and spirit, in ascending order of importance. The literal meaning of the historical events was the least important for the Christian, just as the body was less important than the soul or spirit (two different things, psyche and pneuma, in Greek). More important were the underlying meanings which could only be perceived allegorically. Even Jesus was less important as a historical figure than as the mystery of Christ present to believers in the church and the sacraments.
http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/alexandria.stm
The Trinity was first defined at the Council of Nicea in 325 but did not include the Holy Spirit who was added by the Council of Constantinople in 381. So who developed this doctrine? Greek men influenced by Greek philosophy (including Gnosticism), their pagan backgrounds, and Constantine's influence, which was based not on Biblical truth but on his desire to maintain peace among the various religious factions of which Christianity was in the minority (research the history of the 1st Council of Nicea).
Now, I have responded to most of your objections to my new position. I can develop all of them further but in order to keep this post short I have not gone into any great depth and unless you are willing to address the Scriptures that prove the Trinity is based on the tradition of men I will not waste my time. I posted several questions as well as many Scriptures that contradict the Trinity that you need to explain and if you are not willing to discuss those Scriptures then my only option is to believe you cannot, which only affirms the fact that no Trinitarian can. There are far to many explicit statements in the Bible that defeat the Trinity for me to continue to assume and interpret a God's word by the use of Greek philosophy.