ArchivedEndurance/Alpha debate: The TrinityJohn 1:1 and put in bold the Word was with God. So I am not getting seperation from speculation. I am getting it from scripture itself (Also refer to John 8 where Christ makes the claim that the Father and Him are two seperate witnesses). Read your last post, what did you say?
I'll respond to this next time around due to the word limit.
So you are saying if Christ said He prayed to the Father then that will show seperation? (For now on I will replace the word "seperation" with "distinction") If this is the case, why not admit to distinction from Christ's testimony in John 8? Why does the word "to" have to be there to convince you of distinction when a whole bunch of verses does it in John 8 ?
I never denied that distinctions are made. I can be refered to as several distinct persons, yet I am still one person. I can be a father, husband, employee, and a friend. In each one of these manifestations of myself, I would be playing a different role. The role of a father is not the same as a husband, which is not the same as a employee, etc. In each of these, I am distinctly different but yet I'm still one man. The word to doesn't have to be there, I was just pointed out that it wasn't in that scripture. Not that it must be there or if it were such and such. My apologies.
The fact that Christ said "into thy hands I comitt my spirit" does not mean that He is talking about the Holy Spirit. As humans we have a spirit seperate from the Holy Spirit, so Christ was referring to His spirit seperate from the Holy Spirit. Hence proving distinction. (They should have an emoticon with hands clapping, j/k).
Their is certain problems with your analogy. First, the Spirit in Christ was God. So their is no distinction b/w spirit. For God was manifested and made flesh. So the spirit within was God. Just as the spirit of His Son (Holy Spirit) is refered to as Christ (God) in you.
Now I will list scripture that show how the Father is the Son and make bold the statement that show they are one in the same being.
Isaiah 12:3 - Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be
afraid: for the Lord Yahweh is my strength and my song; he also is
become my salvation. Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out
of the wells of salvation.
John 7:37 - In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus
stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me,
and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said,
out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water
Revelation 22:17 - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let
him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And
whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Revelation 21:6 - And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and
Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is
athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Isaiah 43:11 - I, even I, am Yahweh; and beside me there is
no saviour.
Hosea 13:4 - Yet I am Yahweh thy God from the land of Egypt,
and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
Isaiah 40:3 - The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare
ye the way of the Yahweh, make straight in the desert a highway for
our God.
John 1:23 - He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness,
Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;
Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his
name Immanuel. [God with u, hint hint]
Isaiah 8:8 - And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow
and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out
of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.
Isaiah 42:1&5 - Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom
my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring
forth judgment to the Gentiles... Thus saith God the Yahweh, he that
created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the
earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto
the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Revelation 4:11 - Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and
honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy
pleasure they are and were created.
Colossians 1:15-16 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn
of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in
heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things
were created by him, and for him:
1 Samuel 2:2 - There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside
thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Exodus 17:6 - Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock
in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water
out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.
1 Corinthians 10:4 - And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for
they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that
Rock was Christ.
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and
the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The
Prince of Peace.
Notice, the child is called Everlasting Father and Prince (Son). They are the same
Ezekiel 34:11-12 - For thus saith the Lord Yahweh; Behold, I, even I,
will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh
out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered;
so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places
where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
John 10:11 - I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his
life for the sheep.
John 10:14 - I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known
of mine.
Hebrews 13:20 - Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead
our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood
of the everlasting covenant,
1 Peter 5:4 - And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall
receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
Isaiah 40:10 - Behold, the Lord Yahweh will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with
me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 - In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that
know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Deuteronomy 33:2 - And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose
up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came
with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law
for them.
Jude 1:14 - And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these,
saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly
among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly
committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have
spoken against him.
Revelation 21:6 - And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and
Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst
of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 1:8 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the
Almighty.
Isaiah 48:12 - Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am
he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Isaiah 43:10 - Ye are my witnesses, saith Yahweh, and my servant
whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Notice He said me and my servant (Christ) and also He said understand that I am He.
Isaiah 52:6 - Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
John 14:10 - Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the
Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 7:16 - Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine,
but his that sent me.
John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your
sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
I'm sure the applauds have ceased.
Love Always,
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