Hello hisway!
Try not to get personal ok?
hisway wrote:Now that I have had some time to pray about a reply to your comments and do some research I will respond. But first I must say you have missed and/or distorted the points I tried to make. And to say I lack spiritual insight, well let's see about that.
It comes as no surprise to me that you still fail to realize The Truth, your judgment is clouded my friend and this is one of the reasons why you continue to strive vehemently against the Holy Spirit. If you want to see about this then come and SEE, that is if you are willing to submit to the truth and submit to your errors.
hisway wrote:Before the beginning God had no need of a form. He was omnipresent Spirit dwelling alone so there was no else to have seen Him. But since He desired to be seen in His creation it was necessary for Him to create a VISIBLE MANISFESTATION of Himself. This form or visible manifestation would be everything that He Himself was except in reduced, visible form. This was not another person who was God but God Himself dwelling in visible form. This form He took would be the same form as the angels who would be the first of His living creation. That way when they were created He would be sitting there on His throne and would explain to them who they were and what He was. So they would not be seeing Him as omnipresent Spirit, they would be seeing Him in angelic form as the image of the invisible God. The Greek for *Word* in these Scriptures is *Logos*. Many meanings are given for this word in Strong's concordance. In context the one that seems to fit here is *THE DIVINE EXPRESSION*. For this visible angelic manisfestation of the Spirit of God would be the full expression of His character and glory. Therefore the "ANGEL OF THE LORD" was the Word. And the Word was the "ANGEL OF THE LORD" in O.T. times as in Genesis 32:24-30, Exodus 3:14, Isaiah 6:1-5, Isaiah 63:7-9, Hosea 12:3-5, and in many other passages throughout Scripture. That is why in 1John 4:12 and 1Tim 6:16 we are told God has never been seen because God is a Spirit who reveals Himself via manisfestations.
So when we are told, in the beginning was the Word, it means the beginning of time. The word existed from the beginning of time but the One who dwelt in the Word existed from eternity. So at creation the Word (Angel of the Lord) spoke and the omnipresent Spirit moved to bring all things into being. We are told the Word was with God. It was a separate PORTION of His own being - not a separate person. So when John says, and the Word was God, he is not implying the existence of two gods. Rather he is showing that the image of the invisible God is the ETERNAL GOD HIMSELF.
John 1:14: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
When the time came for God to redeem fallen mankind, something happened to the Word. The Word had always dwelt in omnipresent Spirit. To become our Saviour He would have to have a human nature including a body of flesh. At just the right moment, the omnipresent Holy Spirit transformed the Word into a seed small enough to fit into the womb of a young virgin named Mary as in Matthew 1:18 and Luke 1:35. Notice in both those verses it is the Holy Ghost (omnipresent Spirit) who is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. All during the years of His life when Jesus spoke of, and prayed to His Father He was talking about the Holy Ghost. Now the Word which was God's visible image had been changed from spirit to flesh. So this child who was born, this Son who was given, had pre-existed as THE MIGHTY GOD, and EVERLASTING FATHER. (Isaiah 9:6).
That does not answer my question at all! How can you SHARE something with yourself? Are you aware of what you are saying? Please show me where in Scripture do you come up with such? You are not only speaking a false doctrine but also demonstrating Gnosticism, that is doctrine which is supposedly hidden which does not occur in Scripture whatsoever. Be not deceived my friend. Do you know what the word beginning means? The theophanies mentioned by your scriptural passages does not disprove God Triune Nature but once again only strengthens it. The angel of the Lord is the preincarnate Christ or the second person of the Triune God. If God reveals himself in manifestations than God is therefore seen! What does manifestation mean? If Christ is God manifested and Christ is seen than you have just contradicted yourself. You just stated that God is not seen, so what do you see when you see Jesus? According to you, when we see Jesus we DON'T SEE GOD. Do you not see the flaws in your commentary? It means to show clearly or to reveal, even the greek word for manifestation{phaneroo}which means to make actual and (visible), realised.Once again do you see your flaw? The common misconception of the Triune God that most modalists face is that they make the assumption that it is three Gods, that is not the case however. I have demonstrated in my previous post and example of the trinity. Like unto a tree with three branches, each branch representing each member of the triune God, but are they still not ONE TREE? Furthermore what happens to the human spirit of Jesus?
hisway wrote:As a human being on earth Jesus was a man, the Son of God. At the same time in heaven He still remained God - Everlasting Father. Nothing could be more simple. He was fully man and fully God both at the same time. While He was here as a human being He knew the same limitations and temptations as any other man yet without sin. Yet the nature of the heavenly Father also dwelt in the body of the Son. So even though in Christ there are separate natures or modes of existence He still tells us they are linked together. This is what Jesus meant when He said, "My Father is greater than I". The God nature that He still held in His heavenly existence in which also was linked to and dwelling in His human body was greater than His human nature. So on the cross His Father (Spirit) withdrew from Him (physical body) allowing Him to die and pay the full price for guilty sinners. He did not have two spirits! It was the One and only Spirit of the Father that dwelt in the body (Son) according to John 14:10.
If the Fathers Spirit withdrew from Jesus then whose Spirit was in Heaven? Are you saying that the Father commits HIS Own spirit? Let me break it down and explain what you have just said and see for yourself, try and submit to the Truth for once my friend instead of trying to win an argument. According to you, the Father spirit in Jesus on EARTH was committed to the Father who is also a spirit in Heaven, that makes two spirits my friend and another contradiction. Your not reading my posts too carefully are you? What you have presented has been given to me on numerous occasions. I have seen all sides of this modalism argument, since you are indoctrinated and programmed to believe such false doctrine as Truth, even the Truth would have its difficulty in removing the lie that is sown within. And in turn you will seek every method possible, even OUTSIDE SCRIPTURE to prove that you are right as you already have demonstrated. Paul warned of such teachings in the Scriptures and now you have fulfilled scripture, once again be not deceived! Furthermore take a look at this passage in scripture,
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." Mt 24:36 now according to you the Spirit of the Father was in Jesus correct? Now then please explain to me why is it that the Son does not know the day nor the Hour that the FATHER has put in HIS AUTHORITY???
hisway wrote:When Jesus ascended into heaven we are clearly told He became a quickening spirit. (1Cor 15:45). And notice what Jesus said, "It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you..." (John 16:7). There was a reason why this had to happen. So that He might fill all things. (Eph 4:10). As a human being He could not fill all things. He was once again now to take back His role as The Word. He would be made spirit again. Yet as being Almighty God He is still able within His Spirit nature as God to maintain His human body to manifest as He so desires. But now as Spirit He is able to come into the hearts of those who believe on him, fulfilling the role of the Comforter (Holy Spirit) on our lives. For the Holy Spirit is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Col 1:27)
Specifically in the verse Rev 5:6 you quoted you are referring to the "Lamb having seven horns and seven eyes which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth." This is simply another manisfestation of the One God. Since when does Jesus literally have seven horns and seven eyes? And you say I'm the one who lacks spiritual insight? But since you also refer to who sits on the throne lets look at Rev 22:3-5:
"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and His servants shall serve Him: And they shall see His face; and His name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of sun; for the Lord God giveth them light; and they shall reign for ever and ever."
Notice the throne of God and the Lamb IS SINGULAR. Also His servants shall serve Him - NOT THEM. They shall see His face - NOT THEIR FACES. And His name - NOT THEIR NAMES shall be in their foreheads. It is called the throne of God and of the Lamb. We know the Lamb is Jesus. Who is the Lord God that giveth them light? Thomas answered that when he said to Jesus, "MY LORD AND MY GOD". So the throne of God is occupied by ONE person who is BOTH God and the Lamb. That is why Hebrews 1:8 says the Son's throne endures forever. Therefore, since we are created in the image of God with a mind, soul (spirit) and body, we see that God also can have a soul (Spirit) and body and be one person with one name. We are not three persons in our one body. Therefore we are a three-fold being, and by manisfestation, one person. For example, a man who is married and has children, he is a husband and a father. Yet he is also someone's son. He is a father and a son at the same time but is he two distinct persons? That is how ridiculous the trinity doctrine is.
Your using words to substitutionary words to try and prove your point, the throne of God is occupied by the Father and the Son, you used God and the Lamb, the passage in Hebrews specifically states that the SON will sit on the Throne of God, with the Holy Spirit and the Father dwelling within as One God. So please explain to me what the Father meant when He told the Son that the Sons Throne endures Forever? When Christ sits on the Throne they are united as One God, The Eternal Son is not just a portion of God but is the ever existing second person of the Triune God. Jesus the Son has always existed in the Bosom of the Father as ONE ETERNAL GOD. John 1:18 - No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. The ever-existing Son was begotten. That is that the Son proceeded from the bosom of the Father and became incarnate as Christ. I have clearly demonstrated the efficacy of the usage of the word One, especially when Jesus Himself applied it. And in regards to lacking spiritual sight, lets see it from your point of view. According to you a portion of God came and took the book out of the other portion of the persons hand who was sitting on the Throne correct? Who was on the throne? Try reading the entire chapter of revelation. If the lamb with seven horns and eyes represent a manifestation of spiritual nature then you must take into consideration the others who are in the midst of God in this very same passage in scripture in which I will demonstrate:
Revelation 5:6 - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Now are the 24 elders one elder in different manifestations and are the four beasts literally four beasts or one beast in four manifestations. Or lets make it even more interesting, according to you the Lamb Is not a separate person from the one on the Throne, therefore neither are the 24 elders nor the 4 beasts. But according to you they are portions, this is the third flaw in your commentary. Your only hardening your own heart my friend. I have prayed before I posted and prayed for you also, that you discontinue the obstinancy of your heart, once again be not deceived!
hisway wrote: This is a verse that many scholars now believe was corrupted by adding the words *baptize* and *Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost* to Matthew's Gospel. The correct wording quoted by Eusebius some twenty one times in his massive works was: "Go ye therefore and teach all nations and make disciples in my name". The other words were added to the original Matthew 28:19. Scholars now admit this happened but keep it a secret because it helps them prove the trinity. Jerome in his translation of the Latin Vulgate, which is the pattern of all future translations, interpolated this text into his new translation. From this it came into the KJV. The original baptism mode as used by the early Church is found in Acts 2:38. Baptism was always in the name of Jesus in one manner or another. That is why no where in the Acts of the Apostles did they ever repeat the words of Matthew 28:19 in water baptism. Moreover, in 1995, Dr. George Howard translated a copy of Shem Tov's Matthew Hebrew Gospel which is available for purchase to anyone who wants a copy. And it is the proof the trinity was fraudulently added to this text. This results in adding to and taking away from God's Word thereby putting it under God's curse Rev 22:18,19. And to say that by baptizing in the name of Jesus is baptizing into a role shows how much the trinity doctrine has twisted up your understanding. How many millions of souls have been lost due to the trinity baptism formula? But this brings in the issue of His name which I will address in my next post.
You have accused me of modalism. And yet the truth that a belief in a trinity of 'Three Persons' in the Godhead, in modern language, is nothing less than tri-theism. The trinitarian godhead doctrine was fabricated at Nicea in 325 AD by intellectual theologians without any Spiritual revelation.
But the real issue is this: If Jesus is not the Father and the Father is a separate person then what is the Father's name? Could it be Yahweh or Jehovah? Watch for my next post for that to be addressed.
Accused you of modalism? I didn't accuse you, I rebuked you. Please don't try and make me look bad here ok? I'm only trying to lead you to the Truth out of Love. That commentary you posted does not fit into this argument at all, I'm not sure what your trying to say. How is it the the portion of the Father in Heaven speaks to the Son on Earth and tells Him that He is pleased with Him? According to you the spirit of the Father in Heaven is pleased with the Spirit of the father on earth in Jesus. Do you not see how you clash with your own words my friend? I did not get the Trinity doctrine from the Nicea council nor from anyone else for that matter, common sense and careful study of Scriptures proves its existence. I know God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, this is how I am able to know Him personally which would be indescribable in words. On another short note:
Take heed, If I were you my friend I would get down on my knees and repent, you have stated that millions of souls were lost because of the Baptismal formula of the Father, Son and Spirit. Now I say unto you that this has evidently shown how well you know God and Christ. When Christ said that you will know men by their fruits, He was also referring to doctrine and this is another false doctrine that you have proclaimed. It is not the baptism of water that saves, it is the precious blood of Christ. So if you want to condemn the millions upon millions of Christians who accepted Christ as their Savior but had their baptism performed incorrectly then so be it.
God Bless!