ArchivedErrors in the Bible?Kaiser Wrote Narrated Uthman ibn Affan: Yazid al-Farisi said: I heard Ibn Abbas say: I asked Uthman ibn Affan: What moved you to put the (Surah) al-Bara'ah which belongs to the mi'in (surahs) (containing one hundred verses) and the (Surah) al-Anfal which belongs to the mathani (Surahs) in the category of as-sab'u at-tiwal (the first long surah or chapters of the Qur'an), and you did not write "In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful" between them? Uthman replied: When the verses of the Qur'an were revealed to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him), he called someone to write them down for him and said to him: Put this verse in the surah in which such and such has been mentioned; and when one or two verses were revealed, he used to say similarly (regarding them). (Surah) al-Anfal is the first surah that was revealed at Medina, and (Surah) al-Bara'ah was revealed last in the Qur'an, and its contents were similar to those of al-Anfal. I, therefore, thought that it was a part of al-Anfal. Hence I put them in the category of as-sab'u at-tiwal (the seven lengthy surahs), and I did not write "In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful" between them. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 3, Number 0785) Tell me what do you understand from the above hadeth? 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud and Ubayy bin Ka'b both are recorded to have arranged the surahs in the ways quite different from the arrangement of Zayd bin Thabit. Imam 'Ali bin Abi Talib (a.s.) had arranged the Quran just after the death of the Holy Prophet, in the order in which it had been revealed. This, in itself, proves that the arrangement of the surahs and ayat at that time was different from the order of revelation and 'Ali bin Abi Talib wanted to record the sequence of revelation for the benefit of the Muslims. However, the companions continued to follow their own various arrangements until 'Uthman bin 'Affan, the third caliph, forced the Muslims to follow the arrangement commonly in use at Madina and forbade other arrangements. Another Hadeth, lets take a look at it. Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari: who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, 'Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an MAY BE LOST, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an." Abu Bakr added, "I said to 'Umar, 'How can I do something WHICH ALLAH’S APOSTLE HAS NOT DONE?' 'Umar said (to me), 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.' So 'Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as 'Umar." (Zaid bin Thabit added Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. me). "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness): and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript). " By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing WHICH THE PROPHET HAS NOT DONE?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and Umar. So I started locating Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba WHICH I HAD NOT FOUND WITH ANYONE ELSE, (and they were):-- Again we see according to this hadeth Mohammed never compiled the Quran. The number of memorizers that died was 450: “During the battle of Yamama, 450 reciters of the Quran were killed.” (The True Guidance, An Introduction To Quranic Studies, part 4 [Light of Life - P.O. BOX 13, A-9503 Villach, Austria], p. 47- citing Ibn Kathir’s Al-Bidaya wa al-Nibaya, chapter on Battle of Yamama) According to another source, when these men died they took with them portions of the Quran that they alone had memorized: Zuhri reports, 'We have heard that many Qur'an passages were revealed but that those who had memorised them fell in the Yemama fighting. Those passages had not been written down, and following the deaths of those who knew them, were no longer known; nor had Abu Bakr, nor `Umar nor `Uthman as yet collected the texts of the Qur'an. (Burton: The published text ought here to be amended: for "fa lamma jama`a Abu Bakr", I propose to read: "wa lamma yajma` Abu Bakr", to follow: "lam yuktab".) Those lost passages were not to be found with anyone after the deaths of those who had memorised them. This, I understand, was one of the considerations which impelled them to pursue the Qur'an during the reign of Abu Bakr, committing it to sheets for fear that there should perish in further theatres of war men who bore much of the Qur'an which they would take to the grave with them on their fall, and which, with their passing, would not be found with any other. pp. 126-127, Abu Bakr `Abdullah b. abi Da'ud, Kitab al-Masahif) No text had been compiled during Muhammad’s time. This is further solidified by the following hadeths: [Zaid b. Thabit said:] “The Prophet died and the Qur’an had not been assembled into a single place.” (Ahmad b. Ali b. Muhammad al ’Asqalani, ibn Hajar, Fath al Bari [13 vol., Cairo 1939], vol. 9, p. 9) It is reported… from Ali who said: "May the mercy of Allah be upon Abu Bakr, the foremost of men to be rewarded with the collection of the manuscripts, for he was THE FIRST to collect (the text) between (two) covers". p. 27- citing Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p. 5) Mohammed didn't compile any of the Quran or arrange any of it, according to the above hadeths. The Quran is divided into Surahs (chapters), and after the first chapter, there are 114 Surahs. These are arranged according to their length, the longest being first and the shortest at the end. They are not grouped in themes or chronologically. All Surahs, except Surah 9, begin with the words 'In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful'. The Surahs are also divided into verses. The Qur'an is written in rhyming prose, in lines of unequal length. Kaiser Wrote its just that! Scribal errors. The dead sea scrolls and other biblical findings have proved without a doubt that the bible we have today is the same one the apostels had. This is part of the book of Isaiah that was found in cave 1 at Qumran. Kaiser Wrote Yes Jesus did say: Mat15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. However; Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. The answer is right there in Luke 24:47. Jesus certainly did want His disciples to preach to all nations, but wanted them to begin with Jerusalem, and therefore the Israelites. Matthew 15 passage is telling them that He was only sent to the house of Israel, but He was sent for everyone. Isaiah 42:6 says of the Israelites, "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;" This explains that God called the Israelites to be a light to the Gentiles (essentially, all non-Israelites). This is why Jesus dealt first with the Israelites alone. Kaiser Wrote
Could you show me a clear verse/Surah in the Quran that states the bible itself is currupted, or that it wouldnt be perserved. According to both the Quran and Bible Gods word cannot be altered. Kaiser Wrote Do you have proof from the Quran or hadeths to back up your claim that the Bible was for a particular time? Kaiser Wrote Again I would like to see Quranic proof, that any of Gods words were for a certain time only. Kaiser Wrote the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4 a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11 now look at these passages; "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11 To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12 God our Saviour. Titus 2:10 we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10 God my Saviour. Luke 1:47 now compare them. I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4 Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17 Are you catching my drift? The Bible does say Jesus is God. Jesus never actually said "I am God worship me" But Jesus did show he was God. What would you have done if a man told you he was God? Jesus also allowed people to worship him and only God can be worshipped. Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10 now campare; While [Jesus] spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him... Matthew 9:18 And again, when [God] bringeth in the firstbegotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6 And Thomas answered and said unto [Jesus], My Lord and my God. John 20:28 Just one more thing. Who can forgive sins but God alone? [T]he Lord..forgiveth all thine iniquities... Psalm 103:2-3 "[W]ho can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7 now campare; Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5 Jesus Is God. Kaiser Wrote So who was Zulqarnain? Could you tell me? Many Islamic thinkers and intellectuals consider that the said Zul-Quarnain mentined in Quran is the Greek conqueror Alexander the great. Here are some source from where Islamic thinkers perhaps got this idea of Quranic Zul-qarniain as Alexander the great. The famous Quranic translator maulana A. Yousuf Ali gave a long story as Appendix Vll (titled: Who was Zulqarnain; page 760-765) detailing the facts and figures why most Islamic scholars including himself considered very strongly that, Quranic Zulqarnain was nobody but Alexander the Great. In this long Appendix, maulana yousuf Ali tried to justify why he thought that the person in Quran by the name of Zul-qarnain was nobody but Alexander the Great. Kaiser Wrote Sura 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 clearly say that God created "the heavens and the earth" in six days. But in Sura 41:9-12 we are given another number. Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in TWO Days And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR Days in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance). Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience." So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge. (Surah 41: 9 - 12) (Yusuf Ali) Okay so here we have the earth created in 2 DAYS and the mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in 4 DAYS Last but not least, the sky, So He completed them as seven firmaments in 2 DAYS 2+4+2= 8 DAYS in total witch contradicts the 6 days creation in Surahs 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59. Kaiser Wrote Lets take another look, shall we. He it is Who hath created for you all that is on earth. Then He turned to the heaven, and made them into seven heavens. -- Sura 2:29 Sura 41:9-12 also gives details on the creation process and confirms that the earth was created first and then the heavens. But then we read also: Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof. And after that, He spread out the earth. -- Sura 79:27-30 need I say more? Kaiser Wrote According to Sura 10:90-92, Pharaoh repented "in the sight of death" and was saved. But Sura 4:18 says that such a thing can't happen. I am actually not sure what it means when Allah said in response to his repentance and confession of faith that "This day shall We save you in your body, ..." Compare how the following translations render 10:92: A.J. ARBERRY: So today We shall deliver thee WITH thy body ... YUSUF ALI: This day shall We save thee IN the body ... PICKTHALL: But this day We save thee IN thy body ... DARYABADI: So this day We deliver you IN your body ... SHAKIR: But We will this day deliver you WITH your body ... SAHEEH INTERNATIONAL TRANSLATION: So today We will save you IN body ... T.B. IRVING: However today We will preserve you IN your body ... SHER ALI: So this day WE will save thee IN thy body alone ... E.H. PALMER: but to-day we will save thee IN thy body ... hmmm? Kaiser Wrote Remember Noah, when he cried to Us aforetime: We listened to his prayer and delivered him and his family from great distress. Sura 21:76 So the Ark floated with them on the waves towering like mountains, and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself from the rest: "O my son! embark with us, and be not with the unbelievers!" The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water." Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy!" And the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood. Sura 11:42-43 One of Noah's sons dies in the Flood in contradiction to 21:76 which states that Allah saved him and his family. Now, this contradiction is "solved" in the Qur'an itself. When we read on in Sura 11 up to verse 46 we find Allah replying to Noah in regard to exactly this complaint that he has not saved his son: "O Noah! He is not of thy family: For his conduct is unrighteous. So ask not of Me that of which though Hast no knowledge!" It is certainly possible to disinherit sons or otherwise to deny them the legal status of a son, but it is impossible even for God that a biological son looses the property of being the seed of his father. As such, the formulation in Sura 37:77 "And made his seed the survivors" (of the Flood), is still difficult to reconcile with Allah's answer in Sura 11:46. This is a substantial inclusion-exclusion confusion. Kaiser Wrote I havent taken any of my questions from answeringislam web site, its all over the net if you want to find such things. I prefer books. I can also look for a website to answer your bible "contradictions" but lets try to do that ourselves. Its 3am here I have to be up for work soon, so I will leave you with this for now. Peace |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame