ArchivedErrors in the Bible?Thanks for replying! This is a common misconception among non-Muslims. In the time of Khalifa Usman(may Allah be pleased with him), Islam had spread to many different parts of Arabia and people used to read them with different accents, and so the Qurans they had were not the 'correct' versions. But the original Quran written under the supervision of the Holy Prophet(pbuh) himself. So Hazrat Usman(may Allah be pleased with him) after discussions with the learned companions of the Holy Prophet(pbuh), decided to have all the wrong versions burnt, and have the original Quran, which was with Hazrat Hafsa, daughter of Khalifa Umar(may Allah be pleased with him), copied and distributed to the different places. In this way, the Quran we have today is the same original Quran. Romesweethome said: How can I believe that what the Bible say here is not miscopied? Secondly, as for the writers, why are 2Kings19 and Isiah 37 word-for-word same? Why would God inspire the writers to copy something from another? These two chapters are believed to be written with a difference of centuries. We call that 'plagiarism' in today's world.
The name of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) has not been mentioned here. You know why, because we do make a difference between the Revelation given to him and those given to Prophets before him. We believe that to Jesus(pbuh) was given Revelation from Allah, but which was only for the people of Israel. But the Revelation to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was for the entire mankind. You forget to mention: "We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men giving them glad tidings and warning them (against sin) but most men understand not. " (34:28) And about the finality of Islam: "...This day have I perfected your religion for you completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any forced by hunger with no inclination to transgression Allah is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. " (5:3) Mention the full verse: "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step) in truth the Book confirming what went before it; and He sent down Law (Of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this as a guide to mankind and He sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). "(3:2) Note that you missed 'the Criterion' which is the Quran. Yes. I believe that Revelation was given to Prophets before Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) but that they were for a limited time period and for a particular people , e.g. the Bible for the people of Israel only. "Let the people of the Gospel Judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed they are (no better than) those who rebel"(5:48) Yes. But the Gospel you have is not the complete Word of God. Everything it says is not from God. The next verse says: "To thee We sent the Scripture in truth confirming the scripture that came before it and guarding it in safety;..." (5:49) Allah is guarding the Quran from corruption Himself. "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book except with means better (than mere disputation) unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say "We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."(29:46) Note the 'except with means better (than mere disputation)'. The Quran says: "Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best who have strayed from His Path and who receive guidance. "(16:125) This is the means better than mere disputation, and this is what I want with all Christians here. The Quran says: "There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues; (as they read) you would think it is a part of the Book but it is no part of the Book; and they say "That is from Allah" but it is not from Allah: it is they who tell a lie against Allah and (well) they know it!" (3:78) And “Hast thou not turned thy vision to those who were given a portion of the Book? They traffic in error and wish that ye should lose the right path.” (4:44) “Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say: "This is from Allah" to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby.” (2:79) You said: When we look at the contradictions which Muslims point out to in the bible, we find that many of these errors are not errors at all but either a misunderstanding of the context or nothing more then copyist mistakes.” You call it “copyist” mistakes but why would God allow them if He wants all the mankind to follow it till the Last Day? Mistakes are mistakes and a book by God must not contain them. They Quran doesn’t have any concept of ‘mistakes’ may them be from any source whatsoever. You agree that the Bible contains ‘mistakes’ in some places but then how can you follow the Bible at all as the Word of God? Couldn’t it contain more of what you call “copyist mistakes”? You said: When you compare the two passages you will note that the wording is significantly different in 1 Chronicles 21 from that found in a 2 Samuel 24. In 2 Samuel 24:13 the question is "shell seven years of famine come to you?" You also said that these verses could be talking about two different offers by God. But then why would God change the offer without David saying that the first offer is difficult. Furthermore, if these verses speak about different offers, then why don’t they mention David saying something like ‘the offer is diffcult’ or that ‘please make it easier for me’, etc? Plus, if David had decided to choose the third choice, why would he ask for the easing of the first choice? You said: Once again there is enough information in the context of these two passages to tell us that 8 is wrong and 18 right If 8 is wrong, then why does it say 8 at all? How could the Word of God contain errors? Why do we have to guess from God’s Revelation after it is there I front of us? As for Ezra and Nehemiah: Ezra2:1 Now these are the children of the province that went up out of the captivity, of those which had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away unto Babylon, and came again unto Jerusalem and Judah, every one unto his city; And: Neh7:6 These are the children of the province, that went up out of the captivity, of those that had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away, and came again to Jerusalem and to Judah, every one unto his city; Note that the words are exactly the same except the “Now” in Ezra. And, both verses say that everyone “went” and not “decided to go” or “registered to go”. If everyone went then how can you talk about obstacles? You said: The Hebrew verb rendered "contained" and "held" is different from that translated "received"; and the meaning may be that the sea ordinarily contained 2,000 baths. But when filled to its utmost capacity it received and held 3,000 baths. Thus the chronicler simply mentions the amount of water that would make the sea like a flowing spring rather than a still pool. 2Chr4:5 And the thickness of it was an handbreadth, and the brim of it like the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies; and it received and held three thousand baths. 1Ki7:26 And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained two thousand baths. I can call your interpretation “guesswork” since you are yourself unsure about it. And since the Bible contains ‘scribal errors’, how can I believe that this is not another example of that? I read about extra volumes of 5% and maximum 10%, but I have never hear of an extra volume of 33.3% before. You said: Another solution follows a theme mentioned earlier, that the number in Hebrew lettering for 2000 has been confounded by the scribe with a similar alphabetical number for the number 3,000. So you are unsure about the actual reason for the difference but that it could be either of the two? You said: The stalls mentioned in 2 Chronicles were large ones that housed 10 horses each (that is, a row of ten stalls). Therefore 4,000 of these large stalls would be equivalent to 40,000 small ones. Could you tell me where it is mentioned that the stalls mentioned in 2 Chronicles were large ones? Plus, even if I agree to it, I don’t know who would write 10 pounds as 1000 pennies or vice versa. You said: Another commentator maintains that the number of stalls recorded in 1 Kings was the number at the beginning of Solomon's reign, whereas the number recorded in 2 Chronicles was the number of stalls at the end of his reign. Could you give the relevant references as to where this can be confirmed? Regarding ‘scribal errors’, the Bible says: GOD Almighty Said: "`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)" The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)" Newseed said: Was Muhammad without sin? What does the Qur'an say about the sins of Muhammad? Sura 48:2 says: "That Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favor unto thee, and may guide thee on a right path." Clearly, not only did Muhammad sin in the past, God knew that he would sin in the future! The previous verse says: Verily We have granted thee a manifest Victory48:1) This verse refers to the Treaty of Hudaibiya in which the Unbelievers agree to certain terms which were seemingly very harsh, but Allah revealed to the Prophet that the treaty would be a 'manifest Victory' for the Muslims. Your translation mentions 'sins' which is not 'sins' but 'faults'. There were 'faults' in the spreading of Islam which, by the treaty of Hudaibiya, were forgiven. Muslims could not spread Islam 'comparatively properly' before the signing of the treaty of Hudaibiya. It would have continued, but the treaty of Hudaibiya allowed them to spread Islam 'properly'. This verse is referred to the 'Muslims' and not solely to the Holy Prophet(pbuh). You said: Did Muhammad ever claim that he was without sin? No, in fact, Muhammad once prayed: "So forgive the sins which I have done in the past or will do in the future, and also those (sins) which I did in secret or in public, and that which You know better than I. None has the right to be worshipped but you". (al-Bukhari, Vol. 9, p. 403) This is the humbleness of the Prophet and not that he did commit them. Here he shows his littleness of knowledge in front of Allah. He says that he doesn't know if he unintentionally sinned at any time but that Allah knows Everything. ILJ/Y said: Kaiser, the copiest errors you pointed out do not dramatically effect the point of the stories, and none are shown in reguards to Jesus' words, so that certainly doesn't validate Islamic claims. But errors are errors, and the Word of God cannot contain errors. And, I’d love to answer anything about the Quran. Take care. [/code] |
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