Once Saved always Saved Clarified by Jesus Himself!

[webmaster]

Matthew 13:3-9,18-23
3. And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4. And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5. Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6. And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8. But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

18. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Have you ever planted a garden?
Some seeds never grow.
Some grows then withers away.
Some grow several inches then start to die.
Some dying plants catch ahold of good ground or water and sprout back to life.
Some dying plants are tended to by the gardener and sprout back to life.
I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

[Ezekiel]

Hello I am new to these boards. Hello all.....

Okay this is a huge big topic you just went into.

Tell me what is your belief in this? To whom do you think this applies too?

[Guest]

So then once I accept Christ I can then live any way I want and still make it to heaven? This sounds too easy.

[Ezekiel]

See there is more to it then once save always save.

True believers will not go off sinning for the fun of it. They won't do that.

We all know that if we love the Lord we don't just say because I love him and he loves me that means we can do anything we want.

If we truly love him, then we would want to make him please with us by living holy lives. I know we would fail but we need to keep on trying.

Now

To those who just take God Grace for granted and let say kill for the fun of it and pay no attention that what they are doing is wrong then they are in a big surprise when they meet God.

So Once save always save applies to those that are choosen by God. Read Ephesians and study it.

===============================================

But then there is another aspect of Hell. Anyone here a Thelogian? Anyway so do Hell applies to believers too??? Something to think upon..

[webmaster]

(19) When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

He hears the Gospel but never believes!

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(20-21) But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

This person believes in part but has not received the Holy Spirit!
The person can't read his Bible because he doesn't understand it.
He also confesses I am saved but is not truly Born Again!
It says that because of the Word of God by and by he is offended.
When somebody tells this person what the Bible says they are offended because what they hear in Church doesn't match what the Bible says!
They usually end up making comments like this:

Jesus didn't die on the cross and tell us all we had to do wuz believe in him and we were in Heaven. That would be too simple. A lot of people believe in him. It's that you have to confess that Jesus is your savior and that he died on the cross so that we could go heaven. We have to pray to him and ask him into our hearts.

John 3:16 destroyed by Theology! This person was a 16 year old baptist! Simple it is!!!!!!!!!!!!

**************************************

(22) He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

This person believes in part but has not received the Holy Spirit neither!
The person can't read his Bible because he doesn't understand it.
This person cares for sin and money more then God!
He also confesses I am saved but is not truly Born Again!

**************************************

(23) But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

This person believes and has received the Holy Spirit!
The person can read his Bible and understand it.
He also confesses I am saved and is truly Born Again!
Because of the great gift he has received he wishes to tell others about it thus he brings forth fruit.

Only thru believe in Christ can we be saved. The old argument that well God, you made me this way, will not work! Because somewhere on this planet is a person similar to you but who choused not to follow the path of sin, same story, same old song and dance.

See Jesus Christ is the Word and the Word is Christ. This person believed thru faith that the Word of God was true & could not deny his Savior. So thus he repented of the sin and was set free! The person who changes the scripture to free themselves of a sin is in effect denying Christ!
God = Christ = The Word!


"No one who is born of God practices sin,
because (Christ's) seed abides in him;
and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.
By this the children of God
and the children of the "devil" are obvious:
anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God"
(I John 3:9-10).

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Guest]

Are you then sinless upon the entrance of the Holy Spirit? I am very much saved and very much not sinless.
BTW, I'm not in complete disagreement, I just don't think it is quite as simple as you make it out to be.

[Ezekiel]

Webmaster could you pls write out why you believe once save always save?

I know the quotes. Just try and explain why you believe it is so, makes it much easier for the reader what your saying...

Thank you....

Here firstly you can get a book by David Pawson, very good preacher!

It is called once save always save. Very helpful!!! Helps you understand it better...

Here is one link you can go too to read up more on it.

http://www.anointedlinks.com/once_saved.html

Read it and see if you agree..enjoy!!!

God bless.....

BTW: Marty are you Reform? Clavanist? etc? There are others can't spell then out.

===============================================

[Ezekiel]

BTW how to I edit my post? I can't find the option for doing so can anyone tell me? Thank you..

Here is one more link, this is much better. I think it will clear the issue.

http://users.rcn.com/tlclcms/once.html

[webmaster]

sorry about that the edit was turned off.

[Ezekiel]

Thank you. Thank you for turning it on.

[E.C.Everett]

Hello All,

I too would consider myself in the "once saved-always saved" camp, but probably not for the reasons of people who usually use the phrase.
Salvation is not a once for all event, but rather a process of being conformed to the image of Christ, Who alone is acceptable to God.
We were saved, "from the foundation of the world", "it is finished", we are being saved, "work out your salvation with fear and trembling", and we will be saved, "he that endures to the end shall be saved".

So, what does it mean to be saved?

I believe we are redeemed from sin and death by the Cross of Christ. His sacrificial atonement pays our debt, and He imparts to us the benefit of having "peace with God through our Lord, Jesus Christ". Mysteriously though, the only way to partake of His ransom, is to die ouselves. How is this accomplished? By faith, and by His Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism for the remission of sins."Know ye not, that so many of us were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life".(Romans 6:3,4)
So we are redeemed, by His death, baptized into His death, and raised to "newness of life", by Him. "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord".

So the new life is a life, "dead . . . to sin". The life of "pick up your Cross and follow me daily". The life of being a "partaker of His sufferings".For what purpose? "The servant is not greater than his Master. . ." And if, "it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through suffering.", it seems impossible that we will not also be brought to completion through suffering, as "silver refined".

So are we complete? Yes, and no I think. We were "chosen. . . in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" (Ephesians 1:4,11)
"And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:"(Col.2:10) There is the yes part. Or rather, part of the yes part.

Why do we still sin then if we are complete? Because we are not yet complete. "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" (1ST John 2:1) This seems to indicate that even the justified still sin...."And beside this, giving all diligence,add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity". (2nd Peter 1:5-7) Peter says to add to our faith, these virtues that exemplify the character of Christ. "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is".(1st John 3:2) So, our being like Him, will not be complete until He appears. "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Phil.1:6) So He is doing a work in us, He is not finished, and will not finish ". . .until the day of Jesus Christ".

So in this i believe that we were saved, are being saved, and will be saved. Because it is God who has called us and begun this good work, He will complete it and we have eternal security becuse of this fact. But, we aren't to be complacent and settle for escaping eternal judgement. We are to put on Christ. Being transformed into His image, by fellsowship with His sufferings, and partaking of His divine nature, we are to be made like Him.Therefore, we are being saved. We will be saved when he appears, and He is completed with the work He has begun in us.
Once saved always saved? Yes, because it is God who saves. But to me the phrase, "once saved always saved" should include the life of discipleship, cultivating the virtues of Christ. . ."make(ing) your calling and election sure".

I do not think "salvation", "sanctification", "theosis", "redemption" are separate ideas. They are irreducably linked to the one purpose of God, which is the manifestation of the sons of God, in Christ Jesus.
It is an event, a process, and eventually a finality.

By the way. . .I am new here, so I wanted to say hello to everyone. As you can see, I tend to be rather "long-winded", but only about things i am passionate about, and salvation is one of those "things".. . .

Everett

[Guest]

Hello I am new to these boards. Hello all.....

Okay this is a huge big topic you just went into.

Tell me what is your belief in this? To whom do you think this applies too?

===========
Am also new here, howdy do.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

My openions really mean nothing, but think many will come up empty with nothing to show for their lives in doing things for all the wrong reasons or motives.

Lou
http://www.vietvet.org/loutplei.htm

[Guest]

Ok a good scripture to use here would be 1 corinthians 6:9-10
Look it up then see wot ya think

[Guest]

great post, Everett.

"I was saved, I am being saved, I will be saved," to put it into a succinct little blurb.

[Guest]

I enjoyed reading all of this.

thanks guys.

[padwinlearner]

I believe you cannot be unsaved: John 10:27-30 (Jesus is speaking) "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

So, in essence, NO ONE can take you from Jesus hand once you are saved, that includes YOU. We are not greater than the Father, therefore, we cannot pull ourselves from His grasp. That is a very conforting knowledge, because our salvation is assured.

"It is by grace you are saved, through faith, and not of works, lest any man should boast." It would take works if we had to retain our salvation in any way. We were dead in our sins before we accepted Christ as our Savior - and what can a dead man do but lay there and rot - it is only through the grace of God that we are awakened from the dead through faith in Christ Jesus - not of our own works or deeds.

So, what does that have to do with the parable of the seeds? I believe the seeds are different stages in a Christian's walk. There are times when we blossom fully under Christ's daily watering and nourishing. There are times we try to 'go it alone' under our own power, and become the seeds that fall to the hard ground. The condition of the human heart is very fickle, and it is when we look away from Christ that we fall. But He is faithful always to put us back on track, to pull us closer to Him, to continue to form us in His image.

No, we cannot ever be unsaved - we can be a prodigal child, but in the end, Christ will bring us back. "Train a child in the ways of the Lord and in their old age they will not depart from it" - it doesn't say that every day and every second we will walk the walk Christ would have us walk - on the contrary , we will fall, we will sin, but Christ is always there to cover our sins with His precious blood.

[webmaster]

But is it not a problem to tell people that they are now saved forever just because they walk up to the alter and say a prayer? Then they are told 100% they are saved and don't let nobody tell you otherwise. But in reality they are not saved! I have seen people who has walked up to the alter and was told they couldn't do it again! That is where the once saved always saved concept creates a contradiction against what the bible says!

[preacherintraining]

I'm new here and don't know how to do quotes, but I read earlier someone ask if all you had to do was ask Jesus to your heart and you would always be saved. This is by no means true. The plan of salvation outlined in the bible is this: 1. Hear the Gospel 2. Believe the Gospel 3. Obey the Gospel 4. Repent of your sins 5. Be baptized into the name of Jesus Christ. Many people forget all about the need to be baptized. Also, the seeds are not "stages" of a christian's growth. The seeds represent the word of God. Where it falls represents the different type of people. Some eat it up and grow spiritually and stay in that path and are saved. Others the word gets snatched up by sin and distractions in the world. Others eat it too fast and get head over heels without ever realizing they need to learn more and are corrupted by people who twist the word. Remember, Paul wrote about God's grace continually cleanses us but that is only if we are baptized and repent when we do sin and ask for his forgiveness. If we don't do this then we will be lost. He also adds that though we will continually be forgiven we should never willingly continue to sin.

[christy jones]

Are you then sinless upon the entrance of the Holy Spirit? I am very much saved and very much not sinless.
BTW, I'm not in complete disagreement, I just don't think it is quite as simple as you make it out to be.

the 'entrance of the holy spirit' does not magically make one sinless. when one is born again (receives the spirit) it is only that the soul has been delivered from sin. the body continues to be prone to sinning. but the difference here is that the holy spirit enables the believer to overcome his carnal desires. cf. rom7&8. we are told to 'mortify' the deeds of the carnal nature by the holy spirit. until the body is totally redeemed in the resurrection. this CANNOT be achieved by our will power since the carnal nature is within us.

[christy jones]

Salvation is not a once for all event, but rather a process of being conformed to the image of Christ, Who alone is acceptable to God.
Everett

there are two things involved here, and you are mixing them both.
salvation of the soul is instant, while that of the body is a process.
salvation of the soul is by faith and faith alone (sola fide) found in romans, while that of the body is by works (found in james).

it is the work of the holy spirit to conform us to the image of christ. our carnal nature has to be dissolved by obedience to the holy spirit. paul says walk in the spirit so that you do not fulfill your carnal desires. but for all this to happen one has to first receive the holy spirit. and this does not happen by merely reciting the sinners prayer. the following things have to happen in persons life:
1. repentance : the decision to forsake sin
2. justification : forgiveness by faith in the cross work
3. sanctification : cleansing by his shed blood
4. holy ghost baptism : given to those who have completed steps 1,2,3.

[Hercules]

Well if you are born again and convicted of your past sin's already then you should not want to live in iniquity any more.If you join a church and participate in the communion and still are living in sin and iniquity then you are deceiving yourself.Sin is one thing and iniquity is another define the difference.Yes we are all sinners and do sin each day, but don't just do it willingly.Willingly is iniquity.Each sin carries a conviction if you belong to the lord you will know you done wrong and will ask his forgiveness daily.Even a bad thought is sin so we are to pray and beg for forgiveness daily(die daily)at least one time a day to the lord in prayer.If you are doing this you should never fail.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

But some do, which is why the Bible contains so many exhortations to "endure to the end."

[Rayosun]

I don't know if there's any life left in this thread, but I've collected all of the pertinent verses of both Jesus and Paul to show how sadly, "Fundamentalists" are devoted to Paul's teaching on this crucial matter, instead of Christ's. See

[Omega]

But some do, which is why the Bible contains so many exhortations to "endure to the end."

Very plain and simple, if one cannot endure to the end then obviously he was never a true believer in the first place.

It is written:Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

As a True Believer, although He/She may stumble and fall will get back up.

For it is written:Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand. Psalms 37:24

[_mike_]

Don't forget in that verse omega, to add as a description that in Jesus's times it meant, be willing to die for Him.
In those days the cross equalled death.

Michael

[Omega]

Thank you for mentioning it and clarifying it so that others may understand.

[LindaBee2]

Let's face it. No one - save the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - is perfect. But I'm grateful for the fact that Jesus Christ suffered a slow, agonizing death so I (along with other sinners) will have the chance for eternal life in the Lord's Kingdom. As painful as His death was, it was beautfiul, in the sense that He died so that we may live.

[danjss]

Hello I am new to the forum. This is a hot topic and unfortunately whenever it is discussed people get mad and forget that we are brethren not enemies. But I don't see that problem here. That is why I feel compelled to present this:

If you read the parable in Matthew 25 verse 30. Does this not show that an unfaithfull servant be thrown into hell? Think about this, you can't be a servant of Christ unless you have accepted him as you savior. Read the verse and tell me what you think. You might want to read the beginning of the chapter to get the context.

Matthew 25:30 "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." KJV

[New_Testament]

Hello, to all I'm new with much respect, I will give my thought on this topic I believe also OSAS, but, I will explain why.


As " the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual " 1st Corinthians 2:13.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but (en-) dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful "

" Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity"

It is not that they were "once" saved , then lost their salvation but the Christ NEVER knew them as his own! Matthew 13:20-21 & 7:22-23

Concerning the phrase, "once saved ALWAYS saved". How long is Eternal? An indefinite duration of Time. Christ promises the True Born Again Child of God, " Verily, verily, (It's True, it's true) I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath Everlasting life. " John 6:47.


" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them Eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" John 10:27-28.

" Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained Eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the Eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? " Hebrews 9:12-14.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (Greek word - Apostasia- APOSTASY ) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition " 2nd Thessalonians 2:3.

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate " Titus 1:16

Keyword being PROFESS

[Omega]

Most of the above verses in which you had quoted describes a person who is NOT ROOTED in his belief.

A person who is rooted will not only continue to prosper and grow in spirit but will bring forth fruits of the spirit which will ENDURE to everlasting Life.

Some of the verses you had quoted, refers to those who have not root within themselves, and some of the other verses you had quoted such as,"My sheep hear my voice and I call them by name" refers to true and absolute conversion.

A True Child of God even though he may stray, WILL hear and obey the voice of God who is the Lead Shepard and will follow it.

This verse you had quoted says it all,"" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them Eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" John 10:27-28. "

But then you had quoted,"Concerning the phrase, "once saved ALWAYS saved". How long is Eternal? An indefinite duration of Time. Christ promises the True Born Again Child of God, " Verily, verily, (It's True, it's true) I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath Everlasting life. " John 6:47."

Just as Universalists believe that everlasting of forever is not literal because it translates to "aion"which is a long duration of time, but a problem arises here.

Examples:The glory of God is temporary (contradicts: 1 Timothy 1:17, Revelation 22:5, Jude 1:25, Matthew 6:13, Galatians 1:5, Romans 1:23 and Philippians 4:20)
1.The righteousness of God is also temporary, which is implying that God is a sinner! (contradicts: 1 Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1 Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, John 12:34, John 14:16 and 2Corinthians 9:9)
2.God lives only temporarily, God eventually dies. (contradicts: 3.1Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, Revelation 10:6, and Matthew 6:13)
4.God's Kingdom is temporary, (contradicts: Revelation 22:5, Daniel 7:18, Jude 1:25, Matthew 6:13, and Ephesians 1:21)
5.God is only wise temporarily, God is apparently unwise later on. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, Romans 16:27 and Jude 1:25)
6.God is incorruptible temporarily, (contradicts: 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, 2Corinthians 9:9 and Romans 1:23)
7.God is not immortal, God eventually dies. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, Revelation 10:6, and Matthew 6:13)
8.God abide's only temporarily, (contradicts: 1Peter 1:23, John 12:34 and John 14:16)

by Don C. Hewey Copyright © 1998-1999,

So once A True Believer takes root within himself it will need to be nourished by the Word which will give growth from within, and as Jesus Himself had said," He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." John 7:38

And with this verse,"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."Matthew 7:23,24

There are many who go to church believing that, that is what will get them into the Kingdom of God, going to church just to sing songs but take no serious thought of what is actually heard at church and therefore does not take root within themselves. Or go to church then afterwards go looking for sexual relations outside the boundaries of marriage.

The Word of God says,"Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, DECEIVING yourselves"

Furthermore it is written:Matthew 7:26- And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: But true believer builds His house upon a living foundation which is Christ or upon a sturdy rock.

SO OSAS? YES!

God Bless!

[Zeke]

... OSAS doctrine is Man Made and not biblical. This doctrine only came about in the 1600.s and does not apply the apostolic teachings of CHrist. Where Paul speaks of Faith , Jesus teaches obedience to our Faith.

THey dont apply Most of the New Testament of CHrist to their doctrine or teachings. They seem to omit the idea that Gods Laws which are his commandments, have nothing to do with ones salvation. These are the good fruits we produce out of love for us FAITHFUL CHristians to follow.

Gods commandments are not grevious.

As an Orthodox christian I believe Faith saves us, but we must define what real faith means in Christ.


Matthew 24:13 - "But he who endures to the end shall be saved

Jesus Christ will judge in the last day (John 12:48). He who endures to the end. That hasn't happened yet, so technically we are not saved from that yet. Salvation is clearly conditional. We must ENDURE to the end, and then we will be saved. Why would Jesus spent so much of his ministry on teaching faith and commandment keeping.

This is why Free will is important for us all. Christ would never leave us, however we could walk away from him and his words.



Doers of the word and hearers of the word are two different kinds of christians.


Zeke

[Zeke]

I just wanted to add,


Its very hard to comprehend, billions of Orthodox Christians along with Pastors and Priest worldwide somehow have been duped or misinterpreted Gods Word.


And the Assured Salvation Sect or doctrine that started just 400 years ago, somehow have been choosen by God, to reveal his truths.


We are all Gods people and all choosen to be saved. God gave us his rules its up to us to follow them with Faith and obdience to his word.

[Omega]

Matthew 24:13 - "But he who endures to the end shall be saved

That verse that you quoted refers to the tribulation period where there is a worldwide persecution of jews and those enduring the persecution of the Antichrist.

Jesus is talking to his disciples and what must come to past in the last days.

It is written: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Matthew 24:3

As an Orthodox christian I believe Faith saves us, but we must define what real faith means in Christ.

You yourself had said it my friend, if you believe or do you know that faith saves you, there is a difference!

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48

Careful what you say my friend!

It is written:But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. John 10:26-30

I walk with God and i talk with God, those who are of His sheepfold know His voice and they shall never perish and they will follow withersoever He tells them to, and they love the Lord with all their strength and with all their hearts and with all their minds and nothing from can take them away from Him. AMEN

And in conclusion of whether orhodox or unorthodox, the truth remains in the Word of God and the Word of God endures FOREVER: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:28,39

God Bless!

[Zeke]

CORRECT. OMEGA,

God will never stop loving us..!!!!

however if we dont refrain from sin and we continure to sin and we dont go to church, or do charity , which are Gods commandments, how can one claime he loves and has faith in GOd.






He who loves God follows his will. HIS WHOLE WILL.


ZEKE

[Aineo]

Although you can take Matthew 24:13 to apply to the tribulation period the same cannot be said for:

Matt 10:22
22 "And you will be hated by all on account of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. NAS
Matt 10:21-22
22 "And you will be hated by all on account of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
NAS

Heb 3:5-11
5 Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; 6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. 7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,

"Today if you hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me,
As in the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tried Me by testing Me,
And saw My works for forty years.
10 "Therefore I was angry with this generation,
And said, 'They always go astray in their heart;
And they did not know My ways';
11 As I swore in My wrath,
'They shall not enter My rest.' "
NAS

Heb 3:13-15
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end; 15 while it is said,

"Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me."
NAS

Heb 10:26-31

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge His people." 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
NAS

Heb 10:38-39
38 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
NAS

Rev 3:4-6
5'He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels. 6'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.' NAS

Once saved always saved is a false doctrine. Those who endure the trials and tribulations of life will be saved; those who allow the deceitfullness of this world and adherence to false doctrines detour them from the narrow path will not be saved. Although it is true that no external force in this world can snatch us from the hand of Christ; our own base desires can so engulf us we can willingly walk away from God's truth.

Hebrews 6:4-8
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. NAS

This is not an empty threat; it is a warning to make righteous decisions throughout your life. It is a warning not to get complascent in your faith and sit back in self-assurance that you can get to heaven and the presence of God just by walking down an aisle and making a profession of faith.

[Zeke]

These verses are for the believers who have faith and follow CHrist.

Matthew5
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die." (Ezekiel 18:24-26.)

This passage clearly shows that the "righteous" man (the just man, the man in the state of grace) can "fall away" from that righteousness and "die" in his "sin." In Scriptural language, to "die in one's sins" is to be a reprobate, damned.


"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway" (I Cor. 9:27). Are we any better than the Apostle?



Zeke

[Omega]

CORRECT. OMEGA,

God will never stop loving us..!!!!

however if we dont refrain from sin and we continure to sin and we dont go to church, or do charity , which are Gods commandments, how can one claime he loves and has faith in GOd.






He who loves God follows his will. HIS WHOLE WILL.


ZEKE

Very clear and simple my friend zeke,

Anyone who loves God with all their hearts will CONTINUE to abide in His will, and the FIRST and GREATEST COMMANDMENT is to Love God with all your heart and your strength and mind and soul.

There is no way around it, you nor anyone cannot claim to call themselves saved without abiding and adhering to the first commandment, and if one follows the First commanment, then as Jesus Himself said, the rest fall into place.

And if one follows the first commandment then one is truly saved and if one falls away from salvation then one never adhered to the first commandment which God Himself said should be written in their HEARTS and not just their minds, AND therefore was never saved to begin with.

The Lords speaks with me daily as my best friend in the whole universe and it is His voice that i am listening to and not the voice of any other as Christ Himself said. And He tells me that i am His own and HE LOVES ME and i will be with Him FOREVER and nothing can change this.

Man can come with their own doctrine of salvation lost, but final, if one truly loves the Lord, they will never lose their salvation. To depart from their faith yes, as many so-called Christians have departed from their faith and have turned aside to Islam because the Lord was not in their hearts and sealed within to begin with.


God Bless!

[Zeke]

If you truly love the Lord you follow all of his commandments.

His commandments are not grevious, you cant just follow one commandment , and if you are truly loving your god and have real faiith you follow all of his commandments.

You go to church , you take communiuon and you repent for your sins.

As Paul himself said. he himself could be cast away.

Read and study Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and revelations and see all the If's and warnings for the believers who claim they Love and have faith in him.

Christ came to save all his believers, he did not judge us yet on our walk with him. He will come to judge the living and the dead.


Zeke

[Omega]

Hebrews 6:4-8
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This passage does not teach that one can lose his salvation through disbelief or apostasy. These verses refer to a hypothetical situation wherby the author stresses what would happen to a saved person if he could fall away. The author does not believe one can lose his salvation, or that his readers had{verse 9}; but he so speaks to demonstrate the folly some might have in imagining that they can turn back to Judaism without suffering loss.

Though the author is not writing about his readers{verse 4 those}, he still is writing for their sakes{verse 9,you }. If they shall fall away is the translation given to the fifth participle of the passage. This is a legitimate and even common grammatical usage by the author within the warning passages{2:3; 10:26}and even 6:8.

The first four participles refer to actual blessings whereas number five describes potential situation, and so can be translated unlike the first four.

God Bless!

[Omega]

The church of Corinth tool communion in an unworthy manner not worthy even enough for anyone.

Now when one takes communion one should ask themselves, "Do i really love the Lord?"

Anyone who falls asleep when taking communion obviously, i need not explain it, it is clear as the waters in heaven.

Zeke please quote the bible passages in which you state such notions and then i will attempt to respond in an appropriate manner.

God Bless!

[Zeke]

Omega said:Man can come with their own doctrine of salvation lost, but final, if one truly loves the Lord, they will never lose their salvation.



Loving and following the Lords will are two different entities, a child loves his father and mother but they dont always follow the rules

Yes Man does come with their own doctrines , but only a small sect, most christians adhere to the core teachings of CHrist which are Faith and commandmet keeping, which means if you dont love God and are obedient to his warnings one can lose their salvation.

Faith produces GOds fruits out of LOve which you seem to agree with , however in the same breath you claim these fruits produced have nothing to do with ones salvation. It lacks logic.

[Omega]

Omega said:Man can come with their own doctrine of salvation lost, but final, if one truly loves the Lord, they will never lose their salvation.



Loving and following the Lords will are two different entities, a child loves his father and mother but they dont always follow the rules

Yes Man does come with their own doctrines , but only a small sect, most christians adhere to the core teachings of CHrist which are Faith and commandmet keeping, which means if you dont love God and are obedient to his warnings one can lose their salvation.

Faith produces GOds fruits out of LOve which you seem to agree with , however in the same breath you claim these fruits produced have nothing to do with ones salvation. It lacks logic.

And JESUS SAID,"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

The reasoning and logic of man and the greatness and infinite reasoning of God, and the ways of man are not the ways of God as the heavens are higher than the earth, The Love of God within me is UNLIKE that of the love of man.

And Jesus said,"He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10:37



GOD BLESS!

[Zeke]

[b]1Cor.10
[16] The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?


[21] Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
1Cor.11
[25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.


[26] For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
[27] Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
[28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup


Do you agree with the verses above. Now may I ask if you partake in communion with the Lord.?[/b]


Zeke

[Omega]

Yes i do partake in communion, now what question so you have for me?
And do i agree? if i don't then i don't agree with the word of God which is ridiculous.

Just as many of you had bypassed the verses i had quoted and went on with yours!
Here and waiting!

[Zeke]

[b]Phil.2
[12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


1Pet.1
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[9] Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
2Pet.3
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
Jude.1
[3] Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.[/b]

[Zeke]

Omega said:Yes i do partake in communion, now what question so you have for me?

And do i agree? if i don't then i don't agree with the word of God which is ridiculous.



Well is it the word of God that you partake in communion.?

Which you seem to agree with, however you claim in your next statement that if you stop taking communion you are still loving God.


Its absurd what you are trying to preach as doctrine, it lacks common sense.

[Omega]

Your not stressing your point in any of these verses or your interpretation

Phil.2
[12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

[b]Work out your own salvation does not mean that you should work for salvation in order to obtain it{belittling Christ} The Greek phrase"work out" denotes the expression, manifestation, or actualization of something one already possesses. The philippians are to "work out" the salvation God has already wrought in them{verse 13}, carrying it to its logical conclusion. God has granted them salvation not just for their own profit, but for the good of others as well.

If they work out and manifest the new life divinely worked in them, they will live lives worthy of the gospel{1:27}, in harmony with each other{verse 2}, seeking the progress of the Gospel.

They will also regard one another as more important than themselves{verse 3}, be concerned with the needs of their fellows{verse 4}, and make the appropriate sacrifices in obedience to God, as Jesus did. In doing all this they will work out or express the new life they have through Christ.

You must go into deeper understanding within these verses and not just read in it its plain context, that is a failure many make in doing so.

God Bless!

[Zeke]

This is why this doctrine is considered a false doctrine.

Not only is it unbiblical it lacks common sense.

Before you interpret the gospel of our Lord, you
need to make statements that dont contradict each sentence you propose.


You claim you take communion , however if you stop taking communion, you are still following God. How does that make sense.

If you today decided not to partake in commmuion anymore, can you claim you still love God and are saved.


Who would buy this logic.?





Zeke

[Omega]

This is why this doctrine is considered a false doctrine.

Not only is it unbiblical it lacks common sense.

Before you interpret the gospel of our Lord, you
need to make statements that dont contradict each sentence you propose.


You claim you take communion , however if you stop taking communion, you are still following God. How does that make sense.

If you today decided not to partake in commmuion anymore, can you claim you still love God and are saved.


Who would buy this logic.?





Zeke

My friend i can see that this is going nowhere and that you are starting to get upset{of course you will say that your not}, if one stopped taking communion then obviously one does not love God, clear and simple.

You seem to be more concerned in winning an argument than to listen to the truth which is stated in the word of God, so i will in closing write this. And if you feel that you are right then, so be it.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

I pray to my God that you will someday realise His unfathomable Love for mankind and for you, and that His Son was a way oF showing this greatness of HIs love and mercy and Grace which men still fail to realise even to this very day because they know not The essence of His love Which knows no boundaries.

GOD BLESS!

[Zeke]

[b]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


I did not give you my interpretation of this verse, I just gave you the verse right out of the KJV of the Bible.

Now I will give you most christians interpretation.

Its God call for his people to be Holy. there are two kinds of men on the earth: those who fear what is happening on earth and those who working out there salvaiton in the fear of God:

Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

2 Corinthians 7:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

How about the communion question, if you stop today taking communion are you still loving God and saved.?[/b]

[Aineo]

Communion is not a commandment. The Lord said "When you do this", He did not say "do this".

Rom 11:29-32
29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, in order that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience that He might show mercy to all. NAS

You cannot loose your salvation and God will not revoke His gifts or His calling on your life. However, you can by an act of your free will void the gifts and calling of God by the choices you make before and/or after salvation. If you walk in obedience for 30 years and then the cares and stress of this world overcome you and you don't allow the Spirit to help you overcome in Christ you have not lost your salvation you have given it back to God. "Those who endure to the end will be saved" does not equate to "once saved always saved".

[Zeke]

One must be living in separation from the world of sin. The Apostle Paul said, "Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils; ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and the table of devils (I Corinthians 10:21).

Also one must be worthy to take Holy Communion. Paul further instructs, "Wherefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of Christ", (I Corinthians 11:29). And "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body" (I Corinthians 11:29).

God's Word tells us that we must take Communion (John 6:53-54).

What does the Lord's Supper symbolize?

The Lord's Supper symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (Luke 22:19).

3.) If you fail to take the Lord's Supper, will you inherit eternal life?

John 6:53-54 53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

[54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


How long are we to take Communion?

We are take Communion until the Lord Jesus Christ comes again (1 Corinthians 11:26).26] For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come






Matthew5:
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

A christian should not preach nor teach that it is OK NOT to partake in communion


I thought this was a christian forum, I see by the comments being posted , that it is not.


Zeke

[Zeke]

Paul also said that it's possible to "depart from the faith" (1 Timothy 4:1).



You can't depart from something unless you were once there.



Again, the same idea is expressed in Romans 11:22 "if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."


2 Peter 2:20-21:

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them."


Zeke

[Alpha]

In God's perspective it's once saved always saved, because He already knows whose names are written in the Book of life. But in man's perspective, we do not know who is saved.

[Zeke]

I agree Alpha with half of your statement..

The books of Matthew, Mark , Luke , John and revelations , clearly tells us one can be blotted out of the Book of Life, because of continual sin and not following Gods commandments. Jesus spent his whole ministry teaching us christians his whole word to follow. He left us many if's and warnings to his followers.

[Zeke]

[b][b][b]

One must be living in separation from the world of sin.


The Apostle Paul said, "Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils; ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and the table of devils (I Corinthians 10:21).

Also one must be worthy to take Holy Communion. Paul further instructs, "Wherefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of Christ", (I Corinthians 11:29). And "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body" (I Corinthians 11:29).

God's Word tells us that we must take Communion (John 6:53-54).

What does the Lord's Supper symbolize?

The Lord's Supper symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (Luke 22:19).

3.) If you fail to take the Lord's Supper, will you inherit eternal life?

John 6:53-54 53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

[54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


How long are we to take Communion?

We are to take Communion until the Lord Jesus Christ comes again (1 Corinthians 11:26).26] For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come






Matthew5:
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


You agree on commandment keeping, yet teach or profess they have nothing to do with a chirstians salvation. We must apply all of the New Testament if we are really love Jesus and are truly following him.

With real faith and love for Christ we follow his whole will.[/b][/b][/b]

[Alpha]

Zeke, how would you charcterize an unsaved person besides the fact that person is not a Christian? In other words, let's say a person says he is Christian. How is that person going to be unsaved? (When answering that question, take into account that eventhough we are Christians, we are still sinners).

[Aineo]

A christian should not preach nor teach that it is OK NOT to partake in communion


I thought this was a christian forum, I see by the comments being posted , that it is not.


Zeke

Participating in Communion is not a requirement for living a Christian life. Communion is a celebration of our Lord and should be a part of our Christian life.

Matt 5:17-20

17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. NAS

When was the last time you ate pork or lobster; when was the last time you observed the Sabbath? If you eat pork or lobster and don't observe the Sabbath and teach others to do the same you have annuled part of the law.

This thread is about OSAS, keep to the topic.

[Aineo]

I agree Alpha with half of your statement..

The books of Matthew, Mark , Luke , John and revelations , clearly tells us one can be blotted out of the Book of Life, because of continual sin and not following Gods commandments. Jesus spent his whole ministry teaching us christians his whole word to follow. He left us many if's and warnings to his followers.

Christ's personal ministry was not to Christians it was to the sons of Israel.

Matt 15:23-25
24 But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." NAS

The Kingdom of God was opened to the gentiles when Peter was sent to Cornelius after the resurrection.

Ones name can be blotted out of the Book of Life for unrepentant not continual sin as all men sin.

[Zeke]

I am sorry, I cannot continue with whats being professed on here as Christianity. and the New Testament teachings.

It is not what most christians believe or profess.

OSAS is not Biblical .. I feel like I am having a conversation with Satan, Instead of preaching to others to follow all of GOds will or word, you are finding loop-holes to rid follwing all of the NT of CHrist.

You are teaching against Christ and his word. You claim you have faith and love christ yet claim commandment keeping and most of the New Testament of our Lord has nothing to do with ones faith and or salvation.

Its absurd.!

Your statements and comments speak for themselves.


I hope you gain understandiing with Gods true word that has been taught over the last 2000 years. Apostolic teachings taught by Our Lord.

[Aineo]

God is oppossed to the proud and gives grace to the humble.

2 Tim 2:22-3:1
23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. NAS

2 Cor 12:20-21
20 For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to be not what I wish and may be found by you to be not what you wish; that perhaps there may be strife, jealousy, angry tempers, disputes, slanders, gossip, arrogance, disturbances; 21 I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced. NAS

Romans 4:19-25
19 And without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah's womb; 20 yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief, but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what He had promised, He was able also to perform. 22 Therefore also it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 23 Now not for his sake only was it written, that it was reckoned to him, 24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be reckoned, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 He who was delivered up because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.
NAS

We can be assured of our salvation because God is not a promise breaker.

Paul did not live in fear of loosing his salvation; he worked at being a righteous bond-servant to his Holy Master; works that are ordained of and by God.

[webmaster]

I am sorry, I cannot continue with whats being professed on here as Christianity. and the New Testament teachings.

It is not what most christians believe or profess.

OSAS is not Biblical .. I feel like I am having a conversation with Satan, Instead of preaching to others to follow all of GOds will or word, you are finding loop-holes to rid follwing all of the NT of CHrist.

I am curios Zeke, are you more interested in debunking OSAS or are you more interested in saving people?
1 side preaches Christian Holiness to Christians.
1 side gets people saved.
1 side preaches OSAS to bring backslidden Christians back into the sheep herd.
1 side preaches againist OSAS to bring backslidden Christians back into the sheep herd.
1 side teaches OSAS to new Christians who believe it and leave the church.

The New Testament Scripture was written by God to cover all of these people and many more. People are not robots, what works for 1 will not work for another.

You are complaining like the Pharisee's about a small theology and you have become dogmatic about it. But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

[Zeke]

I dont believe it is "small theology" to teach others that Gods commandments and partaking in the Lords Supper (communion). are part of a christians faith and Love for Christ.


I am not here to de-bunk OSAS since most christians do not consider it theology or Gods word. Their comments speak for them-selves.

OSAS doctrinne simply does not profess or teach most of the NT of christ. OSAS claims they have Faith in God but that is about all they have, since you can see from most posters they dont feel I should be preaching in regard to commandment keeping, church going, or communion.


What I am complaining about is to follow Gods commandments and partake in Holy Communion.


And your response to me is 'Woe" unto you.

1John3:
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth

[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"Here is the patience of the SAINTS,
who KEEP GOD'S COMMANDMENTS
AND HAVE THE FAITH OF JESUS". Rev. 14;12

Zeke

[webmaster]

So does religion save Zeke?

[Zeke]

[b[b]]
[b][b]"Here is the patience of the SAINTS,
who KEEP GOD'S COMMANDMENTS
AND HAVE THE FAITH OF JESUS". Rev. 14;12


"God commandments are not grevious."


With God it is possible, with Man it is Not.

For many "make void the commandments of God while teaching the commandments of men. (See Matt. 15:9)



There are those who claim we are sanctified by our works, but no, we are sanctified by God's Spirit which leads us to obedience. Sanctification is BY FAITH, a faith that works by love unto obedience.


for straight is the gate and narrow the path that leads to salvation and few find it. (Matt. 7:7)


The principle involved in obedience or disobedience is not whether we think something is Ok or not, it is the majesty of the Lawgiver, it is God's who gave those commandments, do we TRUST AND HAVE FAITH in HIM, enough to surrender our own inclinations and desires to HIS WILL[/b][/b]? [/b]

Zeke[/b]

[Aineo]

[b]I dont believe it is "small theology" to teach others that Gods commandments and partaking in the Lords Supper (communion). are part of a christians faith and Love for Christ.

Being a part of a life of faith and obedience is not the same as demanding that communion is a commandment when in fact it is not!

Since you are not here to debunk OSAS, then any further posts off topic will be deleted. If you want to discuss the Lords' Supper and your denominational view of the Lord's Supper start a new thread.

[RomeSweetHome]

So what about those other Scriptures which indicate that works do have a part to play in man's salvation. In order to better understand how this relationship exists, let's look a James, chapter 2:

"But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe; and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." (James 2:18-24)

So, what relationship does works have to salvation and faith? How can we be justified by works? Let's examine the few verses which precede the above passage. "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to him, 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,' but you do not give him the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." (James 2:14-17) Works -- good deeds which help our fellow Christians, spreading the gospel, etc. -- is what proves that our faith is alive and real. If we were to say, "I believe that Jesus is the Son of God," we would call that faith which can lead to salvation. But the proof of that faith, is not that we say we believe, but that we do those things which further the kingdom. Works are the result of saving faith. We are justified by our works, in that our works prove our faith to be real, alive saving faith; not just intellectual assent that God and His Son exist.

It is sort of like the old saying, "Put your money where your mouth is." It is one thing to say that we believe something, and another to conduct ourselves in such a manner as to demonstrate our belief.

Works and faith both together are essential to Christian life.

Peace

[Aineo]

So what about those other Scriptures which indicate that works do have a part to play in man's salvation.

These verses are the outpouring of the Spirit of God in the life of a saved person and do not indicate in any way that works are what saves us. No works = you were not saved, you are paying lip service to a philosophy.

[Zeke]

Love and Faith produce Good fruits which are works. Good fruits are Gods commandments and beatitudes.

If you love and have faith in CHrist you are producing Gods good fruits.

If you love and have faith and Do NOT produce Gods good fruits, then you are not really showing faith or love for Christ.

Faith saves us along with our actions responding to our love and faith in Christ.


So how can producing fruit have nothing to do with ones salvation with Christ.???????


Are you claiming if you Love and have faith in christ and DO NOT produce these good fruits or works which are what good fruits are, then are you still saved.????

So If I love Christ and do Not produce any fruit which you claim have nothing to do with ones salvation .... is a person still saved ?????

ZEKE

[Zeke]

"For we have become 'partakers' of Christ IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end!"

The 'Works' of the flesh are evident:

(Gal5:19-21) adultery, fornication, uncleanness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murder, drunkenness, revelries and the like....of which I TOLD you beforehand, just as I told you in time past, that those WHO PRACTICE such things WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God."

But the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ's have Crucified the flesh with it passions and desires. (Gal5:22-24)

If you DO NOT 'Crucify' the flesh by the Power of the Spirit, you will be overcome by sin and Fall from Grace. That's what Jesus meant when He said 'Abide in Me, bare fruit or be cut off!' (John15:1-6)



What is 'The Law of Faith" Rom3:27 What does the Bible mean by saying, "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? NO, but by the LAW OF FAITH!" (Now most of these things are exceedingly simple, but hidden to the natural man because he does not have a love of the truth. 1Cor2:14, 2Thess2:10)

Read John3:20-21 "For everyone doing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds be exposed. But he who does the Truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."http://www.antiosas.org/index.html

[Aineo]

A saved life is a fruitful life, which the Bible makes extremely clear. However the fruits follow salvation they do not precede salvation. You cannot display the fruit of the Spirit until you have the Spirit, you cannot produce works that demonstrate your salvation until you are saved. James and Paul are teaching the same doctrine. Paul is teaching that works of the Law do not save and James is teaching that a person who claims to be saved and does not demonstrate works is self deceived.

Those who endure to the end will be fruitful till the end. Those who produce fruit for a season and then become "suckers" that sap the strength of the vine are pruned and burned.

[Zeke]

Aineo said:A saved life is a fruitful life, which the Bible makes extremely clear. However the fruits follow salvation they do not precede salvation.

Agreed. !!!


Faith produces love, then continuing love for Christ produces fruits. He is
Saved



However,.....

Aineo then said:

Those who endure to the end will be fruitful till the end. Those who produce fruit for a season and then become "suckers" that sap the strength of the vine are pruned and burned.

So they had faith and believed for a while but stop producing fruits.or lets clariy this they stopped loving Christ.

Unsaved. At this point they have lost their salvaton.



Zeke

[Aineo]

Aineo said:A saved life is a fruitful life, which the Bible makes extremely clear. However the fruits follow salvation they do not precede salvation.

Agreed. !!!


Faith produces love, then continuing love for Christ produces fruits. He is
Saved



However,.....

Aineo then said:

Those who endure to the end will be fruitful till the end. Those who produce fruit for a season and then become "suckers" that sap the strength of the vine are pruned and burned.

So they had faith and believed for a while but stop producing fruits.or lets clariy this they stopped loving Christ.

Unsaved. At this point they have lost their salvaton.



Zeke

At this point they walked away from their salvation. We may be saying the same thing with different words. I don't believe OSAS is a true doctrine. I do not use the phrase they "lost their salvation" since this denotes the ability to find it again. You cannot loose a gift from God you have to give it back or in some way decline it. This takes a conscious choice since you don't loose something inadvertently.

[StreetDeacon]

I totally didn't see this thread, so I'll post the same question here. I apologize if this was already covered, I didn't have time to read all 4 pages. Here's my question from a different thread.....


Zeke started a thread about whether or not a person could lose their salvation. I think it got deleted. I wish it didn't, because it's a question that I've been struggling with for a while now.

Here's an example that would make me think a person could lose their salvation....

A person gets saved when they are 16. When they are 19, they become agnostic or atheist saying that they only believed in Christianity because they were brainwashed, and that it's all a bunch of bull.

Now this next example is something that I can see happening to myself. I wanna say this wouldn't lead to hell, but I don't know....

A Christian man crosses a street. As he does so, he sees a beautiful woman sitting on a bench. He is attracted to her body. Then all of a sudden, he is hit by a bus, killing him instantly. So he didn't have a chance to ask for forgiveness. Where will he end up? Would it be any different if he had complete lust for the woman, wanting to have sex with her?

I also have friends of mine that I worry about. They say they believe in God, and that Jesus is the son of God, and all that stuff. They say they are Christians, yet, it pretty much ends there. They don't give a tithe, they don't bother with church, they're greedy, they cheat on their wives, and much more. In your opinions, what's to come of people like that? They believe, yet they don't want to put forth the effort to live a better life.

[webmaster]

John 3

1. There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


You Must be Born Again just as Jesus Christ said. You are then sealed with the Holy Spirit which lives inside of you. If you give back the gift you then goto Hell!

Simple as ABC.

[webmaster]

Spend some time and read/study these post.

Relationship with God
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=4017

I Never Knew You
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=4018

[beads]

So they had faith and believed for a while but stop producing fruits.or lets clariy[sic] this they stopped loving Christ.

Unsaved. At this point they have lost their salvaton.

You're forgetting I Corinthians 3. There, Paul differentiates among 3 different types of people:

natural - those who are not saved
spiritual - those who are saved and are living godly lives
carnal - those who are saved but are backslidden, i.e. not living godly lives

A person who has "stopped loving Christ" as you put it, has not lost their salvation. Either they are saved but are not following the Lord's teaching (carnal), or they were never saved in the first place (natural). Losing your salvation is not a concept that is taught by the Bible.

Here's an example that would make me think a person could lose their salvation....

A person gets saved when they are 16. When they are 19, they become agnostic or atheist saying that they only believed in Christianity because they were brainwashed, and that it's all a bunch of bull.

This is a similar type of a situation. The person in this example is either severly backslidden, but still saved, or he was never a believer in the first place - he merely "said the right prayer" when he was 16 and has just been going through the actions since then.

Now this next example is something that I can see happening to myself. I wanna say this wouldn't lead to hell, but I don't know....

A Christian man crosses a street. As he does so, he sees a beautiful woman sitting on a bench. He is attracted to her body. Then all of a sudden, he is hit by a bus, killing him instantly. So he didn't have a chance to ask for forgiveness. Where will he end up? Would it be any different if he had complete lust for the woman, wanting to have sex with her?

You're starting with the assumption that the man is a Christian. When you start with that premise, you make the answer very easy: The man is a Christian, therefore he goes to heaven when he dies.

I also have friends of mine that I worry about. They say they believe in God, and that Jesus is the son of God, and all that stuff. They say they are Christians, yet, it pretty much ends there. They don't give a tithe, they don't bother with church, they're greedy, they cheat on their wives, and much more. In your opinions, what's to come of people like that? They believe, yet they don't want to put forth the effort to live a better life.

Here again we have examples that fit into the carnal vs. natural arena. The actions that these friends of yours display, and the fact that you say they have no desire for repentance, would lead me to believe that they were never saved in the first place. So In my opinion, they seem to be on their way to hell.

However, I would not want you to take my opinion on the matter. Only God knows these men's hearts. If they truly are saved and are "only" backslidden, they they will end up in heaven, but they will still have to stand before the Father at the Judgement Seat to account for what they've done here on earth. But if they are not saved, then they will be sentenced to hell at the Great White Throne judgement. Either way (saved or not), the best thing you can do for them is pray that God's Spirit convicts them of their sin and brings them to repentance.

[Omega]

Correction!

But if they are not saved, then they will be sentenced to hell at the Great White Throne judgement. Either way (saved or not), the best thing you can do for them is pray that God's Spirit convicts them of their sin and brings them to repentance.

Just for correction my friend, it is written:And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15


Unbelievers are cast into the lake of Fire at the great white throne judgment and not hell as you stated.

Proverbs 9:8 - Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

God Bless!

[beads]

Correction! ....Unbelievers are cast into the lake of Fire at the great white throne judgment and not hell as you stated.

Right you are. Thanks, Omega, for catching that mistake!

[Omega]

Thank you! I look forward for you catching mistakes of mine my wise friend!


God Bless!

[BryanX]

The belief, "once saved, always saved" or the belief that a person is predestined either to be saved or to be condemned is against Biblical teachings.

Man is not born with a label--to be saved or to be condemned. In fact, the Almighty God desires that all men repent and be saved:

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (I Tim. 2:3-4, New King James Version)

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (II Pt. 3:9, New Internation Version)

So, it is not true that man has been predestined to salvation or to condemnation. The Bible teaches about predestination, but this is different from that being taught by some Protestant denominations. Apostle Paul declared the following:

"In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will." (Eph. 1:11, NKJV)

God has predestined man according to His purpose, that is, for man to "be holy and without blame" (Eph. 1:4, Ibid.). Yet, although God predestined man to be holy and blameless in His sight, He gave man free will--he has the freedom to choose which path to take:

"Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, that you and your descendants might live! Choose to love the LORD your God and to obey Him and commit yourself to Him, for He is your life." (Dt. 30:19-20, New Living Translation, emphasis ours)

God gave man the choice between life and death and between blessings and curses. But the LORD did not merely give man choices. To prove His love for man, God specifically instructed man to "choose life" so that he may live.

The doctrine of predestination as upheld by some Protestant groups is not at all Biblical. In fact, this concept was only promulgated by the French theologian, John Calvin, one of the recognized leaders of the Reformation in the 16th century.

[Omega]

The belief, "once saved, always saved" or the belief that a person is predestined either to be saved or to be condemned is against Biblical teachings.

Once a believer knows 100% that he is saved, cannot fall away depart from their Faith. John 8:32 - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10:26-30

Ask any True Believer, they'll say that i am absolutely right.
Are you going to challenge the MOST FAITHFUL! AND TRUE!

God Bless!

[BryanX]

The belief, "once saved, always saved" or the belief that a person is predestined either to be saved or to be condemned is against Biblical teachings.

Once a believer knows 100% that he is saved, cannot fall away depart from their Faith. John 8:32 - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10:26-30

Ask any True Believer, they'll say that i am absolutely right.
Are you going to challenge the MOST FAITHFUL! AND TRUE!

God Bless!

And this belief is coming from a person who believe that Christ is God.

*rolls eyes*

You probably think that John 1:1 is self-explanatory. Well, it's not. And if you can't explain John 1:1, how the hell can you explain those verses that you just typed up?

You know, you can cite verse by verse by verse by verse by verse...but if you can not explain them or have the correct understanding of them, then your preaching days are over, my friend.

As far as being in your sheep is concerned...NO, I'm not in your sheep; and quite frankly, I'm glad I'm not part of it. You're Catholic, right?

Thanks, but no thanks.

[Alpha]

Look, it's either you stay in the faith and try to follow Christ's ways and be saved, or you don't try to follow Christ and not be saved.

[beads]

The belief, "once saved, always saved" or the belief that a person is predestined either to be saved or to be condemned is against Biblical teachings.......

The rest of your post deals mainly with election/predestination, not OSAS which is what this thread is about. Can you provide some Scripture explaining why you believe OSAS in unbiblical? I'm interested to know why you believe this.

I'd also like to hear some more of your beliefs regarding election, but this is not the proper thread for it. I started a thread a little while ago that may interest you.
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=4240
Please take a look, and I welcome your comments.

[Omega]

BryanX, you can roll your eyes for all i care, your fruits of the Spirit have gave you away. It is a shame that you undermine the power of the Blood of Christ.

Furthermore you have judged me, which is another example of lack of spiritual growth, i am not a Catholic, i am non-denominational.

Maybe one day when you find God with all your heart, with all your strength with all your power and with all your mind, then will you realise and your eyes will be opened to the truth that any genuine believer who says that He or She is saved for sure, is saved for sure!

God Bless!

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[BryanX]

The rest of your post deals mainly with election/predestination, not OSAS which is what this thread is about. Can you provide some Scripture explaining why you believe OSAS in unbiblical? I'm interested to know why you believe this.

I know this thread is about 'Once Saved, Always Saved', but of course you DO expect that any member of this Forum will pop out anytime and not agree with this belief. Well, I don't know who else disagrees with the belief, but I'm one of them.

I've already quoted some verses from the first post of mine. I would assume that wasn't enough for you since you're asking for more. How about YOU provide ME with some Scriptures regarding the 'OSAS' belief? I'll give you the pleasure of starting first. GO!

[BryanX]

BryanX, you can roll your eyes for all i care, your fruits of the Spirit have gave you away. It is a shame that you undermine the power of the Blood of Christ.

Roll my eyes...you mean like this...

Ok, my fruits of the Spirit game me away and I undermine the power of the Blood of Christ blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blaaaaaaaa...shut up with that stuff already! Everytime someone comes up and doesn't share the same beliefs with yours, you always have to molest them with those kind of words. Oh yeah, I've been reading your posts from other threads, so don't even deny what I just said. You sound like some priest or reverend rejecting one of your church members for turning away from their religion. Way to go, Omega.

Oh and let me guess...everytime I tell you something that is against your beliefs, Satan is the one making me type it, huh? Preach on, brother...

Furthermore you have judged me, which is another example of lack of spiritual growth, i am not a Catholic, i am non-denominational.

Wait a second...I judged you? How? I called you a Catholic? Listen Omega, I didn't call you a Catholic. I ASKED if you were a Catholic. You must have missed the question mark. Go back and take a look.

So, you're a non-demoninational? I stand corrected.

Oh man, this just gets better and better. So you're not associated with ANY religious demonination. You must think that if one just has true beliefs, or "most faithful" as you would call it, then that person can be saved on Judgment Day. Wherever did you get that idea? In the Bible? Oh please, I hope not. Good luck with your faith, Omega.

*rolls eyes.....yet again*

Maybe one day when you find God with all your heart, with all your strength with all your power and with all your mind, then will you realise and your eyes will be opened to the truth that any genuine believer who says that He or She is saved for sure, is saved for sure!

That must be your philosophy. Like I said, good luck with your faith. Excuse me, but I have to laugh...

[Omega]

That must be your philosophy. Like I said, good luck with your faith. Excuse me, but I have to laugh...

.... .....

[Omega]

Ok, my fruits of the Spirit game me away and I undermine the power of the Blood of Christ blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blaaaaaaaa...shut up with that stuff already! Everytime someone comes up and doesn't share the same beliefs with yours, you always have to molest them with those kind of words. Oh yeah, I've been reading your posts from other threads, so don't even deny what I just said. You sound like some priest or reverend rejecting one of your church members for turning away from their religion. Way to go, Omega.

Hello False Convert!
You have sold yourself my friend.
Here are some verses tailored just for you!
False Converts are so easily detected, especially you!
So in other words, you were never saved in the first place, you will see in the hereafter, when your name is not found in the Lambs Book of Life and then your fate will be sealed because you have belittled the Son of God and made a mockery of God when He sacrificed His one and only Son for people like you.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:22,23

[Epistle Online]

I will be posting a article on Once Saved Always Saved on my website soon. I have so many verses on this subject. Will post when its up

[BryanX]

Hello False Convert!
You have sold yourself my friend.
Here are some verses tailored just for you!
False Converts are so easily detected, especially you!
So in other words, you were never saved in the first place, you will see in the hereafter, when your name is not found in the Lambs Book of Life and then your fate will be sealed because you have belittled the Son of God and made a mockery of God when He sacrificed His one and only Son for people like you.

Oh please, STOP! You're breaking my heart. Little do you know that, that verse is referring to YOU, not me. Between me and you, who's the one IN a religion?

You probably think one doesn't have to be in a religion in order to be saved. Imagine you debating with someone about a certain religious topic, then right in the middle of the conversation they ask what religion you're in. You'll say, "None. I'm a non-denominational." HA! How embarrassing does that sound? No offense.

Go ahead and continue prowling around the Forums bolding your words and making your fonts this huge. I'll tell you what, if you can make it any bigger, maybe you can turn non-believers into believers. How bout' that?

By the way, I'm not a convert. Again, where'd you get that idea? You're just making stuff up as you go along, aren't you, Omega?

[Omega]

I will be posting a article on Once Saved Always Saved on my website soon. I have so many verses on this subject. Will post when its up

Great! I just want to add real quick.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 1:6
Paul who delivered this message is convinced that the work of grace God had began in us will finish it! Until the day Christ returns. The Lord will bring it to completion which is an example of Eternal Security of the Believer.



Arguements:
There are some who believe that the doctrine of OSAS will lead to antinomianism, which means it allows Christians to live a sinful lifestyle due to Eternal Security! However this is against the nature of Salvation that involves death to sin.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:1-3

Lack of faithfullness of a Christian will lead to a loss of rewards, but will be saved from Eternal Condemnation.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1 Corinthians 3:14,15

"As by fire"He or She will not lose their Salvation bu will be saved by the skin of their teeth.

True believers will show gratitude towards Christ by serving Him faithfully and naturally bringing forth good works and fruits of the Spirit.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38,39

Hebrews 12:2 - Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Verses such as these clearly shows the Eternal Security of a True Believer.
Ant Genuine Believer knows that He cannot depart from His Faith because He stands firm in it. Those who deny Eternal Security lack faith, knowing that they might fall away.

Ask any Genuine Believer who has been a Christian throughout His life will tell you straight up, that He himself cannot lose His Salvation and cannot depart from His Faith.

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Go ahead and continue prowling around the Forums bolding your words and making your fonts this huge. I'll tell you what, if you can make it any bigger, maybe you can turn non-believers into believers. How bout' that?

it's for blind hypocrites such as yourself!
Your immaturity and word choice clearly displays your hypocrisy which also makes you a loser!

By the way, I'm not a convert. Again, where'd you get that idea? You're just making stuff as you go along, aren't you, Omega?

You should put a pacifier in your mouth!

[BryanX]

I will be posting a article on Once Saved Always Saved on my website soon. I have so many verses on this subject. Will post when its up

I just looked over your article, 'Trinity vs Oneness'. You believe that God is manifested in 3 divine persons. Then of course you must believe that Jesus is God also. Is that right?

If so, then I guess we don't share the same beliefs either. If you want, I could type up an article for you that go against the belief of the so-called Trinity. As a matter of fact, I have more than 1 article about it and they are much longer. I also have alot of articles that go against the belief that Christ is God.

Let me know if you want to read the articles so I can type it up for you through E-Mail. I'd post it here, but too many people who don't share the same beliefs with me will get their panties in a bunch after reading it. Don't want that to happen.

[BryanX]

it's for blind hypocrites such as yourself!
Your immaturity and word choice

Shoot! I guess I should start trying to sound like you then. Maybe I should start using big words. That way, it's harder for other people to understand me.

You don't have to say it. Here, I'll say it for you:

"BryanX, it's a shame that you are too immature to understand the words in the Bible and for your poor choice of words. For that, God will send you to hell."

-Omega

Remind me to read my Bible before I go to sleep. And while I'm at it, I'll also read the dictionary.

clearly displays your hypocrisy which also makes you a loser!

Me...a loser? Oh stop! Actually no, I'm not a loser. I'm a religious person--meaning I'm in a religion.

Are you?

You should put a pacifier in your mouth!

You should join a religion.

[Omega]

Remind me to read my Bible before I go to sleep. And while I'm at it, I'll also read the dictionary.

Makes sense since there is plenty of space in that hollow head of yours!

Me...a loser? Oh stop! Actually no, I'm not a loser. I'm a religious person--meaning I'm in a religion.

Are you?

Oh please stop, your hurting my feelings

OK since you spoke on my behalf, i will do the same with you.
Hi my name is bryanx and i am 6 years old and do nasty things on the internet,

You should join a religion

Maybe you should join romper room, since everyone here knows how immature you are.

See Ya!

[BryanX]

Remind me to read my Bible before I go to sleep. And while I'm at it, I'll also read the dictionary.

Makes sense cince there is plenty of space in that hollow head of yours!

Me...a loser? Oh stop! Actually no, I'm not a loser. I'm a religious person--meaning I'm in a religion.

Are you?

OK since you spoke on my behalf, i will do the same with you.
Hi my name is bryanx and i am 6 years old and do nasty things on the internet,

Oh jeez! So wait, who's the immature one here--is it STILL me, or is it NOW you?

I ask that because you say I have poor choice of words, yet you misspelled the word "since". I really don't like bringing up someone's spelling errors when I debate or argue with them over the internet, but you made me. Also, certain part of your grammar is not that good. I won't get into it. I think you can see just by reading your post again.

EDIT: Looks like you just got done EDITING your mistakes. But I still see one that isn't corrected. Also, you've added 2 new lines to your post.

This:

Oh please stop, your hurting my feelings

Gosh. You're starting to sound like me now. But there is only 1 Bryan X. But if you like, you can be my biggest fan.

And this:

Maybe you should join romper room, since everyone here knows how immature you are.

Please don't respond just for the sake of responding.

What's the matter, Omega? Are you losing your touch that you have to edit so much and even add in more words?

[Omega]

I ask that because you say I have poor choice of words, yet you misspelled the word "since". I really don't like bringing up someone's spelling errors when I debate or argue with them over the internet, but you made me. Also, certain part of your grammar is not that good. I won't get into it. I think you can see just by reading your post again.

EDIT: Looks like you just got done EDITING your mistakes.

Bryanx, do you understand that people do make mistakes or are you somehow perfect?

Last edited by BryanX on Wed May 19, 2004 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total

"No one who is born of God practices sin,
because (Christ's) seed abides in him;
and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.
By this the children of God
and the children of the "devil" are obvious:
anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God"
(I John 3:9-10).

[BryanX]

I ask that because you say I have poor choice of words, yet you misspelled the word "since". I really don't like bringing up someone's spelling errors when I debate or argue with them over the internet, but you made me. Also, certain part of your grammar is not that good. I won't get into it. I think you can see just by reading your post again.

EDIT: Looks like you just got done EDITING your mistakes.

Bryanx, do you understand that people do make mistakes or are you somehow perfect?

"No one who is born of God practices sin,
because (Christ's) seed abides in him;
and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.
By this the children of God
and the children of the "devil" are obvious:
anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God"
(I John 3:9-10).

I understand that people make mistakes. No, I am NOT perfect.

However, you called me immature. Why, because of my poor choice of words? I don't think I've had poor choice of words as of late. You just felt like saying something negative about me, that's why you said that. If I'm immature, then that makes two of us. Poor choice of words and misspelling = immaturity. Would you agree?