Liberate wrote:So when your source says 70 ansar were killed what do you think it is restricted to especially with it's title being companions of the prophet.?
A Hafeez is a Qari or Qurraa'a(pl.)
The Ansar is an attributive name given to those who helped fight in the wars and aided the the Prophet. The fact of the matter they do not say 450 died in the battle Yamama as you stated Ibn Katheer said.
Liberate wrote:Help us out here, what do you mean when you say you agree with the earlier interpretation that the tablets mentioned are referring to the actual tablets the koran was written upon, and you agree with it because allah mentions the quran was also written on pages?
Obviously you dont take the time to read and understand my post correctly.
Liberate wrote:Completely irrelevant have you forgotten this ayat:
Nay! This is a Glorious Qur’an, (Inscribed) in the Al-Luah Al-Mahfuz (The Preserved Tablet)! (Qur’an 85:21-22)
It says there is a copy of the koran in heaven, is allah keeping up with the 1,000+ characters added by the dajjal and his scribes or maybe the above is a terrible translation and your translation somehow omits the obvious as you have done all along.
And there are different views on the interpretation of that verse. Some believe The tablets mentioned are refering the actual tablets the Quran was written on, and others believe it is that tablets which are in heaven.
I agree with the earlier [
the actual tablets the Quran was written on] cause Allah menitons the Quran was also written on pages.
Surah 80
[11] By no means (should it be so)! For it is indeed a Message of instruction:
[12] Therefore let whose will, keep it in remembrance.
[13] (It is) in suhuf held (greatly) in honour,
[14] Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy
[15] (Written) by the hands of scribes,
[16] Honourable and Pious and Just.
"
Suhuf " ~ pages
These verses are not totally agreed on also as some who regard the tablets are in heaven rather than the tablets on which the Quran was actually written on believe the scribes here are refereng to angels. This we disagree with being that the verse as it is in connection with the various materials the Quran was recorded on such as Tablets and Pages (Parchments etc) as mentioned in the Quran are two different materials mentioned in plurality that cannot be allocated to
Ummul-Kitab which is one heavenly book.
The Quran mentions more than on particular material it was recorded on which does not conform to the idea of a heavenly book (Singular) as mentioned called
Ummul-Kitaab which in indeed the heavenly.
Liberate wrote:Tell us what you mean by the above H2O in reference to tablets??
It loooks like you are either seriously confused or just an out and out liar.
Seems you want to be Psychic again. Why didnt you just stick to "you didnt understand and for me to confirm what I meant" rather than jumping to conclusions ? Why ask a question then answer it your self with negative notion ?
Liberate wrote:when H2O have you admitted that you might even REMOTELY be in error in any of your translations?
When you learn to speak Arabic then we can discuss this matter. As of now you blind of the Language. We have constantly submitted some of our translations to those who disagree with translations all together for proof. We are taking a step at a time. It took us 4 months just to translate Surah Al-Baqarah. Then made some corrections as it was proofed by Scholars.
Have we made mistakes ? Yes we have. Better suggestions have given help to us. Unlike the rest of the other translators they never put there translation out for criticism by other scholars. We have. After every Juz of the Quran is translate it is submitted to various ulimah for feed back.
Also, you have went over board about my criticism of other scholars translations. I never said their whole translation work is in error. You are exagerating. WE merely disagreed with some horrible translated parts of the Quran that we have had debates about.
Liberate wrote:You should have realised by now I don't take any of your translated ayats seriously there are merely your opinion backed up with the theatre of your mind
Then dont continue to debate with me. Our source is directly from the fountian, the Quran its self. Dont worry, we also included in our preface, that we are subject to error also, and that Quran in Arabic conveys more than it does in English and the Englsih does not substitute the Quran in Arabic etc.
Liberate wrote:...no relevance whatsoever to do with islam, your line of thought is backed up by nobody in the islamic world except you and you alone, merely your opinion not incumbent on anybody, you are not a scholar of arabic you are a sorry excuse for a muslim apologetic. Unable to express yourself (or even lie properly) in english yet claim your english translations are superior and eithout error.
You have studied Islam based on a Sunni perspective, not a Salafi etc. There are various schools of thought called Madzhabs that you have nto ventured into yet. Why ? Cause you studied are dictated from Christian websites who propound the majority of time on Sunni views.
Liberate wrote:Oh I see it's rejected because you can't find any other hadiths to back them? (Have you looked for it (I seriously doubt it)? or the hadith rejecter part of you wants to surface)
It is rejected cause it has no support.
Liberate wrote:This is absolutely ridiculous, is it rejected because there are hadiths that contradict them? If so where are they?
Well then you might as well say court of law testamonies are ridiculous then. Its the saem proceedure as what they do in Law. If one person's testimony conflicts with another, and the other is supported by other testimony to the same thing then whos testimony is not backed by another is regarded as not credible. Its called weighing eveidence. And being that Hadeeth are not divine nor the word of Allah they will fall under such catagory.
Liberate wrote:Or are you rejecting it (without evidence) because you want to reject it or else your religion and standpoint come crashing like a dominoes deck...
Actually no. I reject it cause it is not supported. You will not find that hadeeth in Imam Nawawi in his book "Riyadhussalaheen" which is a compilation of hadeeth by Bukhari and Mulim that only conform with Quran and with each other. There was one point in my life when I didnt accept hadeeth all together when I first embraced Islam. But I was consulted by some of my teachers after some years to reconsider they used the Quran to show me how to know if a hadeeth is bad or not and how to know if a hadeeth is credible or not.
Liberate wrote:The debate has already been discussed and brought to surface by many a natural arabic speaker, a neutral translator shows it for what it is, why does "peace be upon him" have different arabic characters yet somehow mean the same for Mohammed and all other koranic prophets?? It is balatantly obvious your translation and many translations have tampered with the fact in order to hide that allah is praying for his prophet!! Yet you are brainwashed from youth that your "pure" arabic "understood by a child" doesn't really mean what it means.
So in our prayes we also say "Allahumma
sallee alaa Muhammdiw-wa alaa 'aaali Muhammad kamaa
salayta alaa Ibraheema wa alaa 'aali Ibraheem..." In which to Abraha the same thing is said. The word does not mean for Allah to pray for them. It means to bestow benediction on them.
Liberate wrote:The translation is a literal translation of the word regardless of wether it is a name or not
I still woudl like to know what word it says "Coffee" it is so literal. We wrote that sentence from the top of our heads adn we did not say anything about "
Coffee"
Liberate wrote:what do you mean here? Do you mean Mushin Khan's original translation has no parentheses?
Down load the hadeeth software your self. His original/the original source of the translation has parenthesis. And again it not in the Arabic.
Liberate wrote:In that case would you care to show us what it says for Dr Mushin Khan's translation of Bukhari vol 9 Book 89 number 309 from any website, not Volume 6 Book 51 number 509
Yea sure you can download the hadeeth software from the link I provided below. Also, I showed in prior post on this thread that other translators did not render such a parenthesized phrase. But I see that you like Muhsin Khan's translation cause it appeals to your criticism.
Liberate wrote:What editing did I make H2O?
You excluded when quoting me "
H2O later wrote" which indicated a post that was done later conforming wiht the date you listed.
Liberate wrote:you are trying to join two threads from different forums with a gap of over 2 months to make it look like there were continuous
And that was the reason why I added into the quote "
later".
Liberate wrote:anybody who sees the date the subject the topic and the forum will realise what you said as to why you became a muslim in the frist place (saudi oil prophecy) has no relevance to the other post two months later which you try as make as one regardless of wether you put "later" they will simply see you for someone who is dishonest and trying to wriggle out of his embarassing posts.
We will post what I said again:
H2O wrote:
Omega I havent forgot about this verse. As a matter of fact this was the verse I used to test the Quran with as final confirmation before becoming a Haneef. Now lets put it to the test.
H2O later wrote:
So in my case, not speaking for no other muslim but my self and those whom may agree with me, how does Muhammad qualify as a Prophet of اللّــه G-D that satisfies me ?
1) The logical consistancy of the Quran.
2) The rational and challenge it gives
3) The wisdom and reasoning it applies
4) Its natural aspects it delivers that conforms with nature it self
5) The obedience it asks toward اللّــه with reverence and love.
6) How to live in submission to اللّــه with balance in life
7) How to treat others as you would want to be treated by another
Its message is direct, blunt, and to the point
9) The belief in اللّــه oneness and the uniqueness of his divinity and the exalted manner of His sublime majesty
10) The belief in the prophets adn that اللّــه sent prophets to all nations of people
11) The belief in angels, scriptures, the life after death, hell, paradise, judgement day, and the resurrection.
This is how I came to believe the Quran was from Allah qualifying Muhammad as Prophet. Needless to say my belief in him as a Prophet was not sparked by the prophecies or Scientific indications of unseen realities through out the Quran. These things merely increased my belief but was not the cause or the root of it.
H2O addressing OMEGA wrote:
Allah said to the muslim Arabs in the time of Muhammad that HE will soon enrich them. And it doesnt take a 12th grader to know the arabs were a poor nation at that time in which the Biazantine and Persian empires didnt dominate them. When did the Arab muslim of that region become RICH ? Who supplies the 1/3 of the world's oil and has the LARGEST oil reserves in the world. Is not Saudi Arabia one of the richest countries in the world that is now a GOLD MIND ?
H2O wrote:
Your right( Liberate) 9:28 doesnt mention any about oil. It mention a prophecy of the Arabs of the Region becoming rich, in which after the establishment of, they became rich, without it they would probably be just like afghanistan.
Now rather than dictate to our audience let them decide for them selves if your accusaion is true or false. I made my point and woudl just leave it as is, but you dont want to leave. Everytime you bring this up I will keep repeating.
Liberate wrote:In other words you became a haneef muslim and then 2 months later you found out reasons for you becoming a haneef muslim!!!
Let our audience to decide.
Liberate wrote:that involved re-interpreting what a divine book was and how to define what a prophet meant so you can move the goal posts for Mohammed to qualify, at least the audience knows the mind set of the individual they are dealing with, ready to lie and deviate attention from the irrationality of his stance.
Thats you personal opinion. And yes atleast the audience knows what type of mind set mentality they are dealing with also.
Liberate" wrote:H2O why did you conveniently delete the thread I asked you as to who gave Uthman the authority to burn the 7 readings the 'prophet' of allah stated the koran was revealed in?
I have no idea what you are talking about. I havent deleted anything.
Liberate wrote:Why have you side stepped discussing the delights of paradise H2O?
What is the topic of this forum ? Why cant you ever stick to the topic of a forum ? You never fail in doing it. You have soo much animosity it clouds you focus and comprehension.
I came here to this thread to clearify the misconceptions of Islam. Not in the offense to preach or teach our deen.
If you want to start another thread to talk about our beliefs in paradise then do it.
You have already drawn us to a different subject and interupted the discussion with us and Rome. You cant help it cause its in your nature to bash, rather than to understand humbly.
You should ask your self what are you affraid of ? Dont hope for nothing for me cause it will be in vain and you know this. So the only people you should be trying to convince is our audience, not me, cause I am surely not trying to convince you.