Christian/Muslim ThreadsWhy does Allah use the word We to refer to HimseIf these ahafeez had the koran from end to end, why would Zaid say he couldn't find those particular verses with anybody else but this one man?
But he found it. Thats all that mattered. And how did he know about these two verses if he could not find them with no one else ?
...collecting it from (what was written on) palmed stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, till I found the last Verse of Surat At-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. The Verse is:
Was it written or Oral ? That last part does not indicate if he found it in text of memorization with Abi Khuzaima.
I believe we have already been through this before if you are going to start reinterpreting your religion you need to show us your arabic scholar qualifications to entitle you to this again I ask you H2O where are your arabic scholar qualifications to dismiss what other scholars have to say?
And I ask you Liberate where are your English scholar qualification to dismiss what other scholars have to say ?
What on earth do you think he was going to say, "sorry Uthmann/Abu Bakr I couldn't collect the entire koran allah has failed" alhamduillah?
Now your playing psychic again.
making an argument out of silence to deny what is blatantly obvious now Zaid is what he never said he was?
Just like how you made about the above huh ?
I realise this was the argument of the Shia fellow before he left, I find it a little odd you are now quoting from shia websites and making shia arguments, has the h2O one man koranic re-interpreter translator, and hadith rejecter made himself another niche? after telling us you do not go to the masjids of the shias?
He believes in the same book I believe in. We have the same Qiblah. WE both believe in Allah and Muhammad is his messenger. He is my brother, be he is a Shia, Sif, Salafi, Hanabi, Shafi'i, Malaki, Wahabbi etc (Except NOI) the are my brothers and sisters. Their differences is with Allah to answer on the day of Judgment.
and the above means what you became a haneef because of the prediction of saudi oil in sura 9:28? yes or no?
Nope. Just means it was a last confirmation.
Liberate wrote: how I came to believe the Quran was from Allah qualifying Muhammad as Prophet. Needless to say my belief in him as a Prophet was not sparked by the prophecies or Scientific indications of unseen realities through out the Quran. These things merely increased my belief but was not the cause or the root of it.
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 2112#42112
and the above means what you became a haneef because of the prediction of saudi oil in sura 9:28? yes or no?
Yes.
And where is this rule?
Are you a scholar?
Where are your arabic scholar qualifications?
Where is your Englsih scholar qualification ?
Looks like we are back to square one:
Liberate wrote:...(btw there are no prophecies in it and you know it, the byzantines and persians alledge prophecy was done over a bet ( haram in islam) and was out by several years, the conflict occurred and ended 613-14AD to 627AD-628AD, it exceeds the within 5-8yrs specified in your koran, at least you admit you came to islam with a lack of prophecies because there isn't any)..
Again how can you make statements about a book you have never read before ?
O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque (In MAkkah). And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. 9:28
The Makkans today are the lagest suppliers of the world's oil muchless the whole of Arabia now. Also, Arabia which is today called Saudi Arabia is one of the worlds richest countries in the world.
You are not fooling anyone but yourself.
HOW DO YOU DEFINE "SOON"?
Saudi arabia was created in 1932, after 1932 oil was discovered in the country, how do you define soon?, considering the bible already had that the descendants of Ishmael would be blessed seems allah is 1300 yrs too late. Do you not see the booty Mohammed was talking about was the captured women to be raped and the slavery to be had when he and his gang of cut throats besieged quraish businessmen
Looks like we are back to square two:
You (Liberate) made a comment as to the translation "SOON" which belongs together with "SOON WILL" it is from the Arabic "sawf" indicating the furture tense act to definitly occure. It was the matter of Abdullahs choice of words.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.
MAUDUDI: Believers! Those who associate others with Allah in His divinity are unclean. So, after the expiry of this year, let them not even go near the Sacred Mosque. And should you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you out of His bounty, if He wills. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-wise.
QARIBULLAH: Believers, the idolaters are unclean. Do not let them approach the
Sacred Mosque after this year. If you fear poverty, Allah, if He wills,
will enrich you through His bounty. He is Knowing, Wise.
None of these translators use "SOON" cause it is not the significance of "sawf" which expresses the future tense of a definite act to occure denoting no definite time.
Furthur Allah revelaed this from his knowledge:
Yet they(The Pagans) ask thee (Muhammad) to hasten on the Punishment! But Allah will not fail in His promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning. 22:47
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 2178#42178
Note: Your source Ibn Kathir does not translate "SOON" cause again "SOON" is not the significance of "sawf". We provided more than enough sourced to establish grounds, unless you can come up with evidence to prove us wrong.
Do you know how to count ? does 9 come after 8 or 8 after 9 ? Geesh :roll:
Now after we have cleaned up your mess, we go back to the original theme. Surah 9:28 gives a prophecy that was fulfilled in the future.
I am dazzled over here trying to figure out how you could make such a mistake. Did you misread ? Or you just didnt understand what you were reading ? Or you were just following what the other monkey was doing and didnt bother to go back and READ and COMPREHEND the source for verification. Just imagine how much more of islam you have mistaken about due to comprehension failure.
Liberate wrote:Let me get this straight when it says "soon allah will enrich you", it really means allah will enrich your descendants 1300+yrs later because your descendants are the ones fighting the quraish, and collecting booty, did you also notice the conditional conjunctive clause "if he wills" Did you read the tafsir? Do you realise the efficient job you are doing ridiculing your own beliefs?
Well lets see, according to your source Ibn Kathir clearifies "if he wills" the translation.
What does إِن شَآءَ = in shaa (if He wills) in the Arabic language signifiy ?
In sha' allah
Other Commonly Used Spellings: INSHA ALLAH,INSHAA ALLA, INSHA ALLA,IN SHA' ALLA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When a person wishes to plan for the future, when he promises, when he makes resolutions, and when he makes a pledge, he makes them with permission and the will of Allah. For this reason, a Muslim uses the Qur'anic instructions by saying "In Sha ' Allah." The meaning of this statement is: "If Allah wills." Muslims are to strive hard and to put their trusts with Allah. They leave the results in the hands of Allah.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/g ... INSHA.html
On the other hand when Allah uses it for himself the thing will come to pass only by his will.
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 2216#42216
And to add to this, not to long ago I went over this jargon usage with Loki.
"in shaa Allah" (If Allah wills) signifies the achievable that may or may not happen, which depends on the context it is being used in with other verb tense words in the Quran. If the Verb Tense in the statement of Quran it is being used in is absolute then it is clear that act will occure.
"law shaa Allah" (If Allah wills) signifies the achievable that will not happen.
When Allah says "In Shaa Allah" in the Quran refering to himself, in which Muhammad is the transmitter of Allah's message to mankind, where the statement is not absolute denotes that the author (Allah) does not wish to disclose his desire in permiting or not permiting a particular act to happen.
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 6683#46683
| View Parent Message View dfilename Return Home |