i was interested in knowing more about christianity only. If i wish to learn more of Islam i would go to a muslim site... reading islamic info from a christian site... well what can i say... its stupid.
Stupid, like? learning false christian believes from a self proclaimed prophet six hundreds years after it happend as truth? and sticking by it, while everything proves you wrong in the face of historical, archeological and theological evidence?
would you accept catholic references proving christianity or greek orthodox books or something that you do not believe in but is considered to be christian???
your entire beliefs are based on those hadiths... the sharia law consists 90% of what is in the hadith... as are the rituals of your daily prayer included in that book? why do you use a book full of corruption? why do you let a book that slanders your prophet excist? the muslim world is eager to destroy religious books and doesn't allow western freedom philosophers to be teached... yet it's all up for naming your prophet a pedophile and rapists. as well do large muslim groups like shia's and wahhabi's take great faith in the hadiths... are they not muslims then?
how does the quran is a book that stands on it's own, when it relies for 90% on the hadith for social life... the bible has no need for apocrypha. and stands on it's own. quran without hadith, is as a car without it's engine.
men are known to be over-zealous in their "faith" and then there are muslims who just wanna throw in some crap... just for the fun of it
christians had in it's early years problems with gnostic and heretic sects... and myths that were spread around, yet unlike Bukhari we never had one man picking out and compiling what he thought was true and destroying all the others. the canon in christianity happend in agreeance with early church fathers (many people who lived in the first and second generation and heard the traditions directly from apostles or from the apostles disciples, and who could of still contradicted myths if they came into circulation) and over a period of twohundred years (not in the lifetime of one man).
Christians allready sorted out truth from error... at the very beginning. You on the other hand claims that islam teaches truth with error... concerning the hadiths. The same hadiths wich are used in sharia laws and wich define your daily prayers, etc...
the question is which ones are right and which ones are not .... thats where common sense and logic steps in... Altho i am not an authority on Islam... i do have a brain. i call it as i see it... even if the entire world's muslim priests disagreed with me... i will not step back. after all they too are mere humans capable of making mistakes...
if you know wich ones are right, and wich ones are wrong, why don’t you destroy the wrong ones? Why don’t you make perfect hadiths? Instead of leaving all muslims in confusions and doubt concerning verses. And didn’t Bukhari knew what was right and wrong all along? How can the 21th century muslims have better judgement on islam then the early islam fathers?
So what if they were written by muslims??? are muslims error-free? NO..
Destroys the hadiths, they are of no need… if you only can use quotes that agree with the quran, then the hadith is of no use... everything is allready in the quran then. And everything that isn’t, isn’t islam. So basiclly your saying to use the quran only... yet then you abolish sharia law, the 5 times prayers and some other vain superstitions in islam.
Either all existing hadiths are false and Islam has to basis or all hadiths are true and Islam is a sham???
If the quran is a book that stands on it’s own, why do you need hadiths? If it can’t live without a hadith (wrong or right), then your religion is a sham. ‘cause it contradicts the statement that the quran is a complete, clear book that stands on it’s own.
Concerning Gen 11:27-29 and Gen 19:30-36: Gen 19:30-36 If you have an answer to this "disgusting anti-christian" behaviour.. that answer will be the answer you seek.
Just because the Bible records that people lied, stole, and had numerous wives doesn't mean that God approves of such things. The Bible is an accurate record of what happened in the lives of real people. As a result, the mistakes and foolish choices of people are recorded with honesty.
Is that absurd? No, not by a long shot... what sounds more absurd for example is a prophet bargaining with Allah for daily prayers, and then Moses correcting the greatest prophet Muhammed and sending him back to Allah, because Allah’s judgement is wrong. As if Heaven is one giant bargain market. (on this hadith is what you base your 5 daily prayers)
Miracle = The Quran
Prophecy from the Bible : Deu 18:18
Prophethood established.
That poor excuse of a book is a miracle? By what rule? What does that book do, that no other can or did? Miracles are seen in judo-christian theology, occurences that defy the rules of nature. The quran doesn’t do this.
And please read the bible, Deuteronomy 18:18 is about the brethen of the Levites. Muhammed isn’t jewish is he.
That’s a pathetic attempt to proof prophethood my friend, i hope this is not the best you got.
No one vouched for Jesus. Who made him Prophet? meaning does a person have to second a person who claims Prophethood??? Who vouched for Moses? Aaron?? Joshua?? were they in direct communication with God??? Did they recieve revelations?? did they encounter the burning bush? Meaning... vouching for someone doesnt make that person a Prophet... I can vouch for another person... does it make him a prophet??? Meaning... this is an irrevelent criteria for prophethood.
More then 300 prophecies about Jesus make him the most prophecied prophet to excist.
Plus Jesus wasn’t a self proclaimed prophet. Jesus was proclaimed prophet by John the Baptist who was prophecied by Malachi.
Moses may sound like self proclaimed... yet unlike any other self proclaimed prophet, Moses could proof his divine message with great astonishing miracles. Even escaping the great Egyptian empire at old age, with slaves.
Prophecy isn’t the only thing that proves prophethood (like miracles, prophet’s fruits, agreeance with previous covenants, etc....), yet concerning a religion like Islam, one person should imagine God made a prophecy about such a major change if it’s of the same revelations.
(Mat 23:33-39; Rev 6:8; Rev 20:15) hmm... Threatening one to be in religion you say huh?? hmm...
u should be used to being threatend by now if you read the quran… and how easy is it not to quote the revelations… if you follow Jesus(God), you wouldn’t have to worry about being intimitated by such in the first place. These are warnings concerning the end times, something totally else then forced commandments “give a woman 100 lashes for adulatry this punishment pleases Allah and if you don’t believe this, you’ll fry in hell”.
Is that why paul abolished the law??? called it a curse??? We dont need laws... we are good christians.. good deeds will automatically come from us... hmm.. maybe thats why the civilised christian world has be fighting with anyone and everyone and themselves for the past 2000 yrs.
You forgot to mention the eighty Muhammed campaigns, the four caliphs conquests, the ottoman conquests, the wars with Israel, the numerous terrorist organisations, the parsis, christian, hindu and jewish persecutions.
Paul didn’t abolish any laws. The laws were fullfilled by Jesus, not destroyed. The laws are God’s justice system... and the sinners (wich was everyone) had to pay for our transgressions. Yet the judge himself stood up, and paid them for us instead. The law still goes. It’s not because someone payed your punishment for theft, that from now on theft is not a sin anymore.
sura 17:1 Most glorified is the One who summoned His servant (Muhammad) during the night, from the Sacred Masjid (of Mecca) to the farthest place of prostration [If this verse is coming from God why would God be talking to Himself in the third person, and greeting Himself??]
God is talking in the 3d person, who is talking? Don’t you see the problem here... If the quran as claimed is every letter to be of God, then who is talking? Another example are the numerous verses in wich Allah says: “Inch Allah...”
Is muhammed talking? Then the quran is not the ultimate word of God, cause it contains words of muhammed
Is God talking? Then does God not know what he wills?
on reading this verse it automatically creates an image that some of the companions of the Prophet has a serious problem with manners... barging in the door... endless gossip... vain talk..etc.. does such behaviour infront of a God-sent Prophet seem ok to you? Or will you argue that i dont need a book to teach me manners!!!!! point is there were some who had no manners... and there still are some... this verse is relevent to them... and to others as a guideline to a decent society...
you think it’s very social to invite someone, give him food, and then kick him out without having anything said? If people are annoying, then you don’t forbid them to be... nor should you show to be annoyed if that is the case, since he is your guest and you invited him with all his/her inperfections because you are supposed to like the person you invite!!
If their is one reason why your supponsly allah sent prophet had problems with chit chat, is probably because they discussed religion with him... muslim majorities weren’t around yet, so all people if they invited muhammed had to be pagans, jews and or christians. Surely if they discussed religion with muhammed he’d become in trouble, and be embarrased in front of his followers.... one thing to prevent this, is forbid his followers and himself to talk at meals.
And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy God's Apostle, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in God's sight an enormity.
Acctually Muhammed was again the only muslim who had this priviledge, if it concerns other muslims they should allow their wifes to be remarried... yet even ‘the prophets’ young wifes if they’d ever fall in love again or wished to have a family were forbidden to have one.
ok.. what did they have??? Jesus' words??? a few feats of magic? i ahve already proven to you that excorsism and sticks to snakes can be from the devil...
how can the devil drive out himself? Theirs a rebutal in the gospels if you ever read this, explaining this. It’s refuted by Jesus himself.
Mark
3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
so we are back to square one... how did the 12 disciples know Jesus was who he claimed to be? Did they get divine revelations???
- Prophecies
- Miracles
- Exorcisms
- Ressurection
Jesus 4 – Muhammed 0
How did the other Prophets recieve their divine messages???
Certainly not in ways that are demonic, or ways that destroy the previous real word of God. Only a fool or the devil would do such.
“which son is happy to have his father marry his wife, that is just plain weird.”
is an adopted son the same as biological son? what is it that sets relationships??? blood line or paper??? or is your argument based on western ethics only???
It’s still his wife, and if it’s a stepfather... it’s like marrying your wife to a stranger. You’d like your wife doing that to any man who proclaims himself prophet? Well i say i speak with divine authority! Don’t ask miracles i don’t have any, just believe me or you’ll fry in hell, and give me your woman!
i bet if you were to seriously equate 3 with 1 i.e. 3=1 you would reach a junction where you will begin to doubt... such questions are refered to here. Islam isnt about follow the leader... question everything but not in a stupid manner
the trinity is the God of the judo-christian scripture, by denieing this, your denieing that you believe in the same God ! whoever Allah is, he isn’t who he claims he is to be!
Your omniscient God even got the trinity wrong in the quran, he claims we have 3 Gods, that trinity consists out of Mary, Jesus and the holy spirit... you must first begin with knowing that your Allah got trinity completly wrong in order for you to understand it.
The trinity is a simple explenation of One God manifesting himself in three ways. It’s God, the spirit of God, and the word of God. Is this such a hard theological concept for you to get? It’s not 3=1, it’s 1=1=1... simple as that. If you want to learn christianity do it in a sincere way. Ahmed Deedat ain’t gonna learn you christianity my friend.
Peter rebuked Jesus because he loved him very much??? Does such a behaviour seem right towards a God-sent man???
Peter rebuked Jesus because he was afraid to share the same faith Jesus was getting. He was a coward in times of danger. Jesus knew this upfront, since he is God, and knows everything. Sure Peter was one of the most beloved disciples of Jesus and Peter trusted in himself that he was... yes Jesus he knew that Peter still had doubts.
which brings us to sqare 1 again.. how or waht are the requirements for Prophethood??? and may i add... what makes one a false prophet as well??
I gave you requirements for prophethood allready:
- miracles
- prophecies
- agreeance with the previous covenant
- also according to OT jewish tradition a prophet needed to be accepted by the sandhredin (obviously since the jews don’t accept jesus, and as read in the gospel, jesus wasn’t accepted, on basis of false accusations, but that’s an issue with jews and not with muslims)
False prophet:
1. Deceiver - Use of fake miracles:
"...false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect -- if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time" --Matthew 24:24-25
2. Prophecies won’t come out:
"If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:20-22
3. will have bad fruits
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits... Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit." Matthew 7:15-17
4. he may not add unto the book
"....If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." -- Revelation 22:18-19
Past prophecies are subject to individuals interpretations... i claim Deu 18:18 as his prophecy... and i also claim the verse where Jesus says " I must leave for the comforter to come.... etc" but you being a christian will deny it. so?? solution??? what is to be done about it?
Acctually a christian will not denie it, he will explain it and neither are they subjective, but clearly defined in the book what they are about.
Read Deuteronomy 18 at the beginning for once, and you’ll see he’s adressing the levites. Muhammed was not a Jew, so this prophecy is NOT about him, no matter how you twist and turn it
The comforter is being explained, a couple of verses later by Jesus himself!
John 14:26 "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
Now with them being refuted, where are your arguments now?
Have you heard of the aprochripal book of Abraham?? i have a copy if you are interested...
Acctually i’m interested in it’s authencity first.... when was it found, dated, etc... and then i will read it. I’ve even seen muslims who think the gospel of barnabas is truth. So i don’t believe any muslim who claims to know something about judo-christian scripture unless he can back himself up.
“John the baptist was prophecied.“
He claimed a prophecy for himself
John the baptist was prophecied in Malachi 3:1:
"See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty.
Did God say HE would protect the book?? if He did then the extra 6 books that the catholic church has... are they part of the real book or is the protestent version the real deal??
God say he would let the gospel(good news) be heard over the entire world...
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. -- Matthew 24:14
has he kept his promise or not?
So satan can take a light form.. hmm interesting... btw.. if you have read Acts in the NT .. you will come across the incident of Paul and his "vision" of a bright light...
Paul was confirmed by Peter (who was a disciple of Jesus) to be a legitimate apostle, as did he confirm with Jesus’ teachings... and did he spoke in tongues, and did he miracles, their is no dispute that Paul was sent by none other then Jesus.
Acctually Paul made one of the most astonishing remarks on Islam before it came into existence.
"...if we, or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed... again... let him be accursed." -- Galatians 1:8-9
Are you more knowledgable that Arius?? in case you dont know it.. he was a unitarian.. he was totally anti - trinity.. do you know more than him??? Emperor constantine recognised him by inviting him to the 325AD nicea round table meeting...
Yes well many heretics were called to that nicea meeting, don’t seek to much honor in that... cause they discussed theological dispute... and those that were the most in agreeance with the early christian tradition were generally accepted. Arius wasn’t one of the people that got much agreeance with his anti-trinity beliefs and was exiled as a heretic.
Is the word of God seperate from God ??... I am tryin to visualize it... there is God and then there is the word of God (tape recorder) 2 seperate entities... and then there is the or rather there are the verses of Jesus talking to God but since you explained it ... Jesus speaking to himself.
Isn’t the quran the word of God? Isn’t it tape recorded on a book? Does this mean their is duality in islam?
Jesus talking to the father, has an entire theology titled the hypostatic union, it's fairly simple to understand if you ever read the gospels... yet i still have my doubts if you did, so i won't bother explaining for now untill i know for sure.
Is Jesus his own Father? NO?? then there is a distinct seperation of entities.. i.e. there are atleast 2 seperate entities God and Jesus.. well that takes care of the 2 in 3=1.. are you sure you agree with this?? i.e. 2 seperate entities?
Seperated seen by human three dimensional perspective, seeing it from a divine perspective they are all one God.