Christian/Muslim ThreadsIslam is for Kool-Aid Drinkers
Sources pls, nowhere is 'ayat' used for the scriptures of the people of the book, jews or christians but the 'verses' of the koran. When We substitute one revelation for another - and God knows best what He reveals (in stages), - they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not. Surah 16.101 This verse quite clearly refers to the substitution and elimination of texts of the Qur'an itself, it does not say that Allah replaces one kitab (book) (the Tawraat or the Injil, for example) with another, but rather that he substitutes one ayah for another ayah. If your 'theory' that the scripture of the christians and the jews have been abrogated, explain this sura the third to the last sura revealed in chronological order: 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. If their scriptures have been "abrogated" why are they being asked to judge by their scriptures? I hope you are aware that the koran was not written in a book format for several years (150+ yrs after the death of Mohammed many believe) after this alledged 'revelation' does it make sense to tell the jews and the christians that their scriptures have been abrogated when the replacement has not even been thought of yet?
Says who? Sources pls? Whose tafsir are you following?
Again which school of thought suggests this? where does ayat mean anything other than the immediate 'revelations' relevant to the koran. sura 3:3 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Far from abrogating the previous scriptures of the jews and christians as modern muslims such as yourselves would have us believe (to justify the koran's existence) it does the very opposite it confirms it. I am amazed each time I hear this, does this really sound like God, in a 22yr period God would abrogate things repeatedly? How come in the 3,000+ yrs of judaism and chrisitanity there was no abrogation but suddenly within a 22 year span there are numerous abrogations, Why should a God who changeth not according to the two previous revelations create such confusion within a 22 year span ( If your god is omnipotent surely he would know what the outcome is going to be and realise he needs to say something only once, if he knows the future), and what exactly were the abrogations? How to rape captured women without paying them dowry or marrying them, how to lie in wait for pagan businessmen and capture their booty which also meant raping their womenfolk... how to slay pagans when you are now numerous in number as opposed to "to you your religion to me mine" when your numbers do not exceed 15 in number, it now reads "to me my religion to you mine too or I kill you."
Then you are left with a myriad of islamic jurispundence, Osama and his like can use the abrogations to kill at will, the ahmadiyya can use the abrogations to claim Mohammed is not the last prophet, the sufis can use the abrogations to claim everything is metaphorical, you can get whatever you want to see and claim you are right, completely absurd. And you are equipped to interpret the koran because? What seperates you from any of the above or the other numerous islamic sects who believe they have the onus on the truth and interpretation of the koran? Aren't you suppose to be following an imam rather than making it up yourself? Ah yes Mohammed also did the same trick when he wanted to rape captured women, "all women are forbidden unto you except women whom your right hand posseses" It does not take an imam to realise MOhammed was making things up precisely for his benefit, did not Aisha say "your god rushes to fulfill your wishes" or something similar. You are giving more credit than what is due, just to suit your point of view nothing new about it, all the islamic sects do this, I am just wondering which sect you represent? Lets face it you either say the previous revelations were abrogated even though the koran doesn't say such a thing or you realise islam is not following the God of the two previous revelations that leaves only one other option...satan What new laws? How to run around the ka'ba clothed as opposed to running around naked? You honestly think God would care so much for man's thoughts that He would allow some sin, he would back down to man's desire to allow sin? Apply some logic to this and tell me if this does not sound like what a man with a few followers would do until he got the upper hand.
"Carrying the child, (Jesus), she (Mary) came to her people, who said to her: "Mary, this is indeed a strange thing! Sister of Aaron, your father was never a whore-monger, nor was your mother a harlot."" sura 19:27-28 In Sahih Muslim 25 #5326, says: "When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read "Sister of Harun", (i.e. Mary), in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born well before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger I asked him about that, and he said: "The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostle and pious persons who had gone before them."" [Sahih Muslim, translated by Abdul Siddiqi]. In here your koran is attributing the words the jews said to Mary (the mother of Jesus) as "O sister of Aaron"., when Mohammed was confronted that Aaron was not the sister of Mary the mother of Jesus according to the hadiths he told a further lie that the people of the old age called themselves after pious persons that had gone before them, if he is correct there should be examples of Jews calling themselves "sister of Aaron" "Brother of Moses" even though they were not real life contemporary siblings. I would like you to show me in the whole of Judaism, where someone was called "sister of Aaron" or a sister of someone that was not their real life sister? This is the idiom the koran says is the speech of the jews, either the jews called people things like "sister of so and so" or you are looking at a contradiction, error and blatant lie in your koran and hadith. |
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