Qur'an proves the Jesus of the Bible is superior to Muhammad

Discussion in 'Muslim & Christian Discussion Forum' started by Aineo, Nov 29, 2006.

  1. Aineo

    Aineo Active Member

  2. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

    Every Muslim on earth actually believe in the Qur’an, your statement has no meaning, in fact, if every person read the Qur’an with understanding, he would place Jesus pbuh in the right place, as many already did.

    Now let me comment on the link that you have provided.
    BISMILLAH:

    This is very funny, Muhammad pbuh granted paradise to some of his companions, and yet you are trying to tell your blind readers that he himself does not know whether his final destination would be paradise or something else. You have claimed that this is the MUSLIM TRADITION, and yet you have provided no reference.

    The Muslim tradition also taught us that Jesus pbuh will die like anyone else. So there is no point of who is greater here, the end of everyone is death, whoever is going to die later, does not make the person greater than those who died before him.

    There is no replacement of any kind here, the Qur’an truly confirmed that Jesus pbuh is the Messiah sent only to the Jews, and the Qur’an too affirmed that Muhammad pbuh would be the last and final messenger to man kind, not only to the Arabs. Each of them has got his own mission, and each of them strived hard to accomplish that mission.

    I wonder if these guys are lying or just ignorant. Where in the world that Muhammad pbuh ever believed that Jesus pbuh died, raised from the dead THEN ascended into heaven?

    The author is behaving like a kid, where have we ever claimed that Muhammad pbuh is the Messiah? And where did we ever say that Jesus was replaced by Muhammad pbuh? And where did we ever say that the Qur’an was written by God Himself?

    The Qur’an in the above verses does not state that Jesus was sent to TELL THE WORLD about Allah’s will.

    This verse clearly states that some messengers of God, including Jesus were blessed with special gifts, He raised some of them a degree higher than others in honor, and one of them was Jesus pbuh, it was not only Jesus who was exalted above all others as this lair indicates, and that’s why he dare not to quote the exact verse to show his readers.

    I urged all of you to read the verses quoted by this guy, and tell me where did John announce that Jesus is the Messiah?

    We would not disagree on this, we believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus pbuh.

    Now the author of this article is promoting his own dictionary, he is also kicking his own foots the moment he use the word righteous synonymously with sinless. Doesn’t he know how many righteous persons are mentioned in his own Bible? Doesn’t he know how many people were declared PURE in his own Bible? However, the Qur’anic verses states that Jesus would be AMONG THOSE who are righteous, but the author of this article added the words “ALL HIS LIFE” to promote his lies that Jesus pbuh was greater than Muhammad pbuh.

    Yeah, he WILL be raised from the dead when he comes back, as all of us will be raised from the dead also. Nothing weird at all.

    Very funny, the words they “They killed him NOT, nor crucified him” appeared to this author as though he was crucified and died. There is no any other person, who could be more clear than the Qur’anic statement concerning the allege Crucifixion of Jesus. They KILLED HIM NOT, and as we all know, the person who was not killed, naturally means that he never tasted death.

    This is the only thing in this article that makes sense.

    To the children of Israel.

    The same thing for all messengers and their followers.

    So?

    This verse talks about those who take their priests and anchorites as their lords, among them those who also say that Jesus pbuh is their LORD, but the commanded given in this verse is very clear, that “yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)” Qur’an 9:31

    The same verse also states that the FURQAN was revealed as criterion of judgment between right and wrong). The Furqan is known as the Qur’an.

    Another thing that makes sense, he was sent to Israel only, not to the whole world.

    He raised him up to Himself, he does not cause him to be resurrected, the word resurrection is not mentioned anywhere regarding Jesus in the Qur’an, neither anyone could point out a single verse from the Bible where it says that Jesus was RESURRECTED.

    Yeah, guidance and light for those who fear ALLAH.

    No, the verse states, that IF they HAD stood fast by the law and the gospel, they would have enjoyed happiness.

    And do you know who are these people who were cursed? Those who say that Jesus pbuh is Allah, and those who believe in Trinity.

    The verse talks about Jesus’ pbuh miracles and God’s favors upon him, but even if Allah inspired Jesus’ disciples to believe in him, we would not disagree.

    At Jesus’ pbuh time, yes they were. In the same verse, Allah is asking Muslims to be His helpers as well.

    We do believe.

    True, we believe that these 2 prophets of God were nothing but Muslims and preached nothing but Islam.

    With interpretation of the meaning to suite the author's beliefs, but Alhamdulelah, his lies were exposed.

    Let’s go.

    What was that? The Old Testament alone confirmed the worship of One True God, it was not because of Jesus than ‘every person could pray directly to God’, in fact according to the NT no one could reach God UNLESS he comes first to Jesus, which means that he is the mediator between man and God. So what was said just make no sense at all.

    Allah beswtoed on Muhammad pbuh the Qur’an which is also light to the whole worlds.

    Actually he said, all a person had to do to inherit eternal life is to keep the commandments.

    From where are you getting your information? Muhammad pbuh was declared to be God’s final prophet, but the Qur’an never claims that Jesus was replaced? Jesus pbuh was sent to the Jews, where Muhammad pbuh was the confirmation of all previous messengers but it happens that there will be no one to come after him.

    Actually you guys are following Paul more than Jesus pbuh, Jesus said don’t think that I’ve come to destroy the law or the Prophets, I’ve come not come to destroy but to fulfill, for verily I say unto you, the heavens and earth shall pass away, but not one jot or title shall in no way pass away till all be fulfilled. But Paul nailed the commandments of God and Jesus to the cross, and then you attributed his words to Jesus.

    What is really better for you, to be a slave to the One who created you from nothing, or to call God Almighty “the Father” and lower His majesty to human level by attributing such title to Him? Yes I am proud to be God’s slave, and out of love I do submit my whole self to Him.

    Almost each and every point in this article was refuted and by Allah’s help I proved that the author of this article either a lair or ignorant of Islam.

    I could still go on and on to refute this childish article, but I am running out of time, so its enough for now.

    Salam
    ammuslim
     
  3. Aineo

    Aineo Active Member

    Your statement has no meaning since if "every Muslim on earth actually believe in the Qur'an", Muslims would not be killing Muslims, promoting suicide bombers, or out to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth.

    I cannot take your rebuttal seriously since you did not quote Pickthall and then show how Clare G. Weakley, Jr. misunderstands the Qur'an. All you have done is question his intelligence, taken parts of the Bible out of context, or shown that Weakley is wrong concerning the Scriptures.

    Now let's look at the Qur'an.
    Allah allegedly tells the "People of the Book" not to believe in the Trinity and since the only way the "People of the Book" can understand the Trinity is a false doctrine is to believe the Bible, therefore Allah confirms the Bible is true.

    So who is the Messiah or the Christ depending on which translation of the Qur'an you use?
    This is just one of the hundreds of prophesies concerning the Messiah who is the Son of God. In Judaism the King of the Jews is considered "the son of God" based on 2nd Samuel 7:14-17.
    Psalm 2 cannot refer to David or any other King of the Jews since none of them ever possessed the whole earth, however Jesus will "possess" the whole earth when he returns. Jesus is also the Son of God since only Jesus was born of a woman without having a human father.

    You have not refuted anything, all you have done is post lies, avoided how the Qur'an actually reads, and avoided what is found in the Book that Allah allegedly tells the People of the Book to believe.
     
  4. webmaster

    webmaster Administrator Staff Member

    Where does it say in the Quran that Muhammad was given power/authority from Gabriel or Allah to forgive sins?
     
  5. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

    No, Neither Muhammad pbuh nor anyone else was give authority to forgive sins according to Islam, but interestingly, according to your Bible, Satan himself was given the power and authority of all the kingdom of this world. However, whether Jesus pbuh or the devil himself was given authority and power or not, it only shows that both (Jesus and the devil) are not powerful, because this authority was GIVEN to them by someone else who owns that authority and power.

    On the other hand, Muhammad pbuh was also given the authority to grant paradise to some of his companions, wives and daughters. however, this authority is not belongs to Muhammad pbuh as well, it is owned by Someone else who is All Powerful.

    Salam
    ammuslim
     
  6. Aineo

    Aineo Active Member

    Just as the Trinity is a myth, Muhammad's alleged authority to grant paradise to some is also a myth. BTW ammuslim, Muhammad's concept of paradise comes from pagan religions and his concept of hell comes from Plato through the same Greeks who came up with the Trinity.

    The Bible tells us that Satan is the god of this age (Greek aion not kosmos) and has only as much authority as allowed him by God. On the other hand Jesus was given all authority in heaven and on earth.

    Now, I am waiting for you to rebut the OP.
     
  7. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

    Those people truly believe in the Qur’an, but they don’t implement it, so don’t blame Islam for the action of some bad Muslims, don’t blame Christianity for the sins committed by some Christians.

    I’ve emailed him my reply, and I challenged him to quote the Qur'anic texts instead of adding his own words of interpretation, and I tell you, he would not be able to do that, because the moment he quote the actual text (not only the reference number), he would be called a liar by any sane person. In his reply, which I can post it here if you wish, he just keeps on repeating that Jesus is alive, but he could not refute a single point in my response. I replied his email again, and I love to see how will he respond.

    You are too funny like G. ‘Weaky’, the Qur’an came to condemn this theory called Trinity, and so bringing the Bible into discussion is totally irrelevant. Let me explain something, when God is addressing the Jews and Christians as the people of the Book, he is referring to the Torah and the Injil which are not the Bible of today, the original Torah and Injil are not corrupted by the way, but they are not with us today. and so you have no other way but to follow the Qur’an, which is the Furqan, (the criteria to judge right from wrong).

    You see, the Messiah pbuh is Jesus no question about it. But where does the verses you have provided mentioned that this SON would be called Messiah?

    In Judaism the King of the Jews is considered "the son of God" based on 2nd Samuel 7:14-17.
    Psalm 2 cannot refer to David or any other King of the Jews since none of them ever possessed the whole earth, however Jesus will "possess" the whole earth when he returns.

    We will be looking forward to see the fulfillment of this prophecy, right now you cannot prove anything, its only your beliefs based on a man-made book.

    Cant you thing of other people who had no human father?

    I have exposed the lies of the author of this article and I sent him an email to inform him about his lies and/or ignorance, you have not given yourself the time to check up whether I am lying or not, all what you cared to do is to hit the ‘reply button’.

    Salam
    ammuslim
     
  8. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

    Bismillah: Assalamo ALikum.

    The Bible also said something which you don’t know of:

    Luke 4

    5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.
    7 So if you worship me, it will all be yours

    So was Satan given ALL authority of ALL the Kingdoms of the world.

    Salam
    ammuslim
     
  9. Aineo

    Aineo Active Member

    :D You are trying to take this thread off topic and I am still waiting for you to refute the OP and appealing to the fact that Satan had authority over all the kingdoms of the world since Satan is the father of all false religions is off topic. Also you are simply proof texting since you are choosing to ignore:
    Jesus has authority over Satan, which is why Satan wanted Jesus to worship him. You are also ignoring that Psalm 83 tells us that God Himself will destroy Israel's enemies and the nations listed in Psalm 83 are those Muslim nations that are out to eliminate Israel for the face of the earth.

    Now Satan tempted Jesus but Satan deceived Muhammad. Muhammad Spoke the Satanic Verses - The Evidence and Proof
     
  10. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

    I did not ignore any of your points, I am actually sticking to one point in which you wanted to turn it into something else. Re read my posts again with an open mind and try to understand them, being the last one to post is not going to make you winner here.

    I believe I’ve discussed this topic on Ex Muslims forums, but I will try to look into this thread again.

    By the way, Ex Muslims (who are not Ex Muslims by the way) are planning to ban me for telling the truth.

    Salam
    ammuslim
     
  11. webmaster

    webmaster Administrator Staff Member

    You wrote it, not me.

    BTW being the last one to post is not going to make you winner here.
     
  12. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

    I didn’t understand what you really wants to say. But I didn’t deny that Jesus was given the authority to forgive sins, but I also said that this authority is not belongs to him. I said Muhammad was given another authority of granting paradise to some people, but this authority also not belongs to him. Both are great prophets of God, came for the same purpose, to spread the truth that God is one and you should worship Him alone.

    Salam
    ammuslim
     
  13. webmaster

    webmaster Administrator Staff Member

    Agreed


    Possible, it's your religion not ours?

    One part of your sentence is your own religion and the other part is ours? This we will never agree upon.

    Agreed

    We believe Jesus was also given the authority to be worshipped. You can argue against this till your head turns blue. Why bother?
     
  14. Aineo

    Aineo Active Member

    One major problem with Muslims is they limit words like "worship" to apply only to God. Great men including kings are "worshipped" by men.
    Now ammuslim, I quoted a Sura that tells the People of the Book to believe what was revealed to us, and what was revealed to us is that Jesus is God's last messenger, which precludes Muhammad being anything but a false prophet. Muhammad's ignorance of the Bible laid the foundation for refuting the Qur'an. This ignorance is plain proof that Muhammad's Allah is a figment of his imagination and therefore any authority Muhammad claimed for himself is a myth and a Satanic lie.
     
  15. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

    Bismillah: Assalamo ALikum.


    Yes, its your OWN beliefs. and I don’t intend to argue, just show me where did he say WORSHIP ME.

    Salam
    ammuslim
     
  16. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

    It depends on how do you define the word, do you mean bowing in respect and reverence? Then we will have no problem, but if you are trying to imply that he was worshiped as a divine, then we better not to argue because we will never agree.

    And this revelation you call it Bible right? No the Surah is talking about the Torah and the Injil where Muhammad pbuh is mentioned as the last and final prophet, if you are now into quoting Surahs, then you should also consider quoting other verses from the Qur'an where it says that the Jews and Christians used to hide the message of these scriptures to suite their own wishes and desires.

    Salam
    ammuslim
     
  17. Aineo

    Aineo Active Member

    Since I do not believe Jesus is divine and you know that I do not believe Jesus is divine your response is nonsensical. Jesus is the greatest man who ever walked the earth and at God's command in the OT as well as the NT we are to worship him.

    As to Muhammad being prophesied in the Bible, that Sura does not even hint at this interpretation. Muhammad is not even hinted at in Scripture, this is another fantasy that Muslims have invented.
     

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