Muslim & Christian Discussion ForumJESUS LIFEjimmy wrote:Anyone can take scripture out of context and make it say what they want.
Which is what Justin Martyr, Clement and Origen of Alexandria, and all the other early church fathers did in order to come up with a triune God. Justin Martyr did not believe in a triune God, yet the Catholic Church canonized him while declaring most other binitarians heretics. What you want me to believe is that Peter and Paul lied. As to your proof texts that support your belief, all of them are taken out of the full context of the Scriptures in order to try to prove a false teaching that was not taught by Jesus, Peter, John, Paul, or any 1st century disciple of the Lord.
Let's put just one of your proof texts in its full context. John 20:14-29
14 Now when she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, and did not know that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?"
She, supposing Him to be the gardener, said to Him, "Sir, if You have carried Him away, tell me where You have laid Him, and I will take Him away."
16 Jesus said to her, "Mary!"
She turned and said to Him, "Rabboni!" (which is to say, Teacher).
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that He had spoken these things to her.
19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
24 Seeing and Believing
Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, "We have seen the Lord."
So he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."
26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!" 27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
NKJV
Does God have a God or did Thomas actually say "My Lord and my god"? In the Hebrew culture any person with the one true God's authority could be referred to as "god". We see this in the OT where God told Moses he would be as God to Pharaoh as well as God referring to the Jews in general as "gods" because they were given custody over His word.
Thomas was a Jew and thought like a Jew and used idioms common to Jews. When we understand that word usage changes over time we can discern that John used "logos" as this Greek word was understood in the 1st century. The vernacular understanding of "logos" was "reason" and "predetermined plan or purpose". This understanding is demonstrated in Peter's Acts 2 sermon when he said: Acts 2:22-24
22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know -- 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.
NKJV
I would suggest you replace your NIV with either the NKJV or the NAS since the NIV translators have taken liberties with the Greek in John 20:17. "ajnabaivnw" does not mean "returned"; "ajnabaivnw" means "ascended". http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/New ... ubmit=Find
| View Parent Message View dfilename Return Home |