Trinity DebateBefore Abraham Was,I AMabsolutetruth wrote:Aineo wrote:You have not addressed every thing I have posted. Go back to the Messianic Prophesies vs. Trinity thread where you rejected that those Scriptures apply to Christ, this is not addressing what I post, it is refusing to address Scripture.
I told you several times already. I don't disagree with the Messianic Prophecies (except Proverbs 8 which is not talking of Christ). So stop sayin' that. I agree with the messianic prophecies. Now that we've got that cleared up finally, maybe we can move forward.
I quoted your post from the Messianic Prophesies vs. Trinity thread where you posted you reject those prophesies as applying to the Lord. You are contradicting yourself. absolutetruth wrote:and yet we see in verses 10-11: I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
John hears a voice say those words (that you said only God uses), and when he turns around to see who it is, verses 12-18 explain who is speaking: 12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. on the basis of these clear verses, you must concede your stance. Like I posted above you never put Scripture in context. Who gave John the vision? God through His servant, which is found in these verses: Revelation 1:1-2
1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. NAS The servant who God used to give John the vision was the Lord who is speaking in verses 11 and 17-20.
As to you getting tired of my showing you that elohiym never refers to a compound unity that is your problem. “Elohiym” is an irregular Hebrew noun and is never used in the OT to indicate a compound unity. Your appeal to the Greek phrase “one church” is begging the question since the word “church” is the translation of the Greek “ekklesia”. NT:1577
ekkleesia, ekklesias, hee
a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place; an assembly
1. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of council for the purpose of deliberating: Acts 19:39
2. the assembly of the Israelites, Acts 7:38; Hebrews 2:12
3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance or tumultuously: Acts 19:32,41
4. in the Christian sense,
a. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship: 1 Corinthians 14:19,35
b. a company of Christians,
aa. those who anywhere, in city or village, constitute such a company and are united into one body: Acts 5:11
bb. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth; Matthew 16:18
cc. the name is transferred to the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven: Hebrews 12:23
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 2000 by Biblesoft)
As to JW's and Islam the only similarity to what they believe and what I believe involves there is only one God, the Father. you guys use all the same verses and the same arguments, which is what i was saying. And if you take the time to read Catholic apologists you use the same tactics they use to defend their Marian doctrines, transubstantiation, purgatory, and etc. Catholicism takes Scripture out of context, appeals to non-canonical books, and Greek philosophy. Most cults and false religions do get some concepts correct, what make them false religions and cults is they do not get it all correct.And you can deny God's word all you want but Jesus tells us this in John 17:3. Jesus did not preexist creation, God's word, which is God's creative power and became flesh preexisted creation. how is that saying that He didn't preexist the Creation??? Your understanding of what I have posted in skewed by how you interpret what I post. My point is there is only one God, which is what Jesus said in John 17:3. The Son preexisted creation as God’s predetermined plan for mankind, which is what Peter said in Acts 2.
Jesus rightly claimed to be the Son of God, Jesus never claimed to have the attributes of God. In fact the Lord plainly states He is not omniscient. Matthew 24:36
36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. NAS Jesus never states He has God’s glory, what Jesus said is that He had glory with the Father, not that He had the Father’s glory so your appeal to Isaiah is begging the question.
As to the Son receiving honor that properly belongs to the Father, since Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father and His heir then in accordance with Hebrew custom and the Law of Agency the eldest Son is due the same honor as His Father.
The foundation of Christianity is the apostles and the prophets, all of whom were Jews. In order to understand the Bible one must understand the foundation of the Bible. Greek philosophy is the antithesis of our Hebraic roots. As to my stance being blasphemy, I can say the same thing about the Trinity since God has made it clear He is the only true God and that He is not a man or the son of man. Jesus was and remains a man and the Son of Man as well as being the only begotten Son of God.
| View Parent Message View dfilename Return Home |