"Science draws conclusions based on measurable and observable data..."
But what happens when the man's mind is faulty? Do we know that we are measuring the right things or observing the right things? If we put junk into a computer, it gives us junk back. If we're asking the wrong questions of science, we'll get junk answers.
Physical sciences prove certain responses. For example, evolution can be proved to occur on a macular scale - butterflies can be seen and proven to diverget into separate and distinct species. BUT, no one has ever proven the evolution between species occurs. There is no scientific way to prove that it has or will occur. To say otherwise is taking science on faith - that what they suspect (but can't prove) is truth.
"superstition is belief, practice or rite irrationally maintained..."
Just because you don't see the hearts of Christians and see their experiences, doesn't mean they don't happen. Just because we can't prove that you actually exist - beyond words on our computer screens - doesn't mean you don't exist. You can't hear God talking to us, but that doesn't mean that he isn't. Just because you've never seen an angel doesn't mean that we can make it possible for it to happen.
We can show you evidence of God's presence through things He's done in our lives, but if you choose to disclaim our evidence as "coincidence" because we can't manipulate God into an experiment.
You're assuming here that your ability to perform logic is infallible. That our human minds can comprehend all that there is to comprehend. If it won't fit into a logical experiment, then it's superstition.
That's the failing of humanism. That it's possible for us to know, understand, experiment, and experience everything. If we can't, then it doesn't exist.
You can see a black hole - a place of emptiness amidst that vastness of space. We can't tell what it's made of. We think that it's a super-dense star or other cause of a gravity well that pulls light rays from the stars around it into its center, but we can't prove what it is. We can only see how it affects the area around it. Even though we can't see anything in the black hole, we know that something's there. We can't prove that quarks or strings exist either, but we suspect what they are because of the way they affect things around them.
God's the same way. We see His evidence, but scientifically we can't peg Him down. Does that mean that He doesn't exist? Like the black hole, He exists. We see it from the evidence around, but we can't prove scientifically exactly what He's made of.
Does that make it superstition to believe in a black hole, string theory, or God? Nope.
From my husband: if you think this universe can be created out of nothing, or that the universe began with the big bang. Put a vaccuum in a jar and let me know when a spontaneous bang creates a universe inside your jar.
Humanism as a philosophy inevitably leads to tolitarianism. (He just faded out on his cell phone, so can't finish his comment on history and humanism - I don't know much about that. He's the history guy. I'm the science woman.) I think he was going to relate humanism to Hitler and Stalin as the end results of humanism.
OK. back to me. I would love to know why you want to discuss something that you obviously don't agree with. Why do you come here to argue with fundamentalist Christians who you know you won't agree with and who won't agree with you?
Your comments on superstition and pagan cultures. Why do you think they're all make believe? I think there's something there. Example: Haitian voodoo. Why are Hatians scared of zombies and other things that go bump in the night? Could the curses of witch doctors really have power? Would you go to a Haitian witch doctor and ask him/her to put a voodoo curse on you just to prove that it didn't exist? That would be an interesting scientific experiment. Is there a possible explanation for why these things don't hold up to experiments? Sure, if there was an unseen intelligence behind them that knew an experiment was being done and it didn't want to reveal itself.
Yeah, I know. Sounds like illogical, superstitious, nonsense.
But what if there's something out there that we can't measure. What if scientists are right when they theorize that there are more dimensions around us that we don't have access to? What if there are things in those dimensions that can access us?
There are a lot of unknowns in the world. Choosing to think that the only truths are those found on a lab bench gives one a very narrow view of the possibilities and realities around us.
So the church ridiculed the scientific findings of Galileo. Big whoop. The church is made up of stupid people. I've met some pretty stupid scientists too. That doesn't make God or science less valid, just the particular people involved in that particular event or experiment.
"The Bible finds it's archetypes in older mythologies and cults..."
That's a big assumption. Your assuming that the Biblical story didn't come first - that it's not the orginal archetype - and that the others are derivations of that. A worldwide flood would be represented in the histories of many cultures. That a Christ figure would appear to save mankind was told to Adam and Eve in the Garden. Mankind knew what to expect - perhaps the "mythical stereotype" is nothing more than something they knew was coming. Perhaps ancient man was smarter than us and had a better understanding of things than humanists, despite all their science. (It's also a big assumption to think that science makes us smart or intelligent or have greater understanding.) I think you need to ask more questions - a wider range of questions.
Bible - infallible and factual account - of what? The Garden of Eden, Christ, or both? Does it honestly matter if the Garden of Eden was historically factual and occurred in 7 days if it correctly assesses in a literary form the origination of mankind and our current spiritual situation?
There's a question for you. Are you anything more than a body? What makes you different from the animals? Could there be an animal as smart as you? Would it then have rights under the law equal to yours?
As a Christian, I'd say I have a spirit given to me by God. But since you don't believe in God, you can't believe in things that are spiritual. Therefore, you must think you are nothing more than a smart animal. Or am I wrong?
Back to Bible as fact... There are historical reasons to believe that Christ existed, I'm just not a theological scholar who could list the many historians of that time who mention the goings on in Palestine, but then, that's not why you're in this forum. If you really wanted to find out whether the Bible was real, you'd ask someone with a theological education. Why aren't you contacting someone like that?
And what kinds of facts are you looking for? Video tapes? Eyewitness accounts? Jesus' DNA glowing with holiness? What would satisfy you?
"Given what we know about ancient cults...not to mention our understanding of the physical world..."
Back to the physical world again... the purpose of religion is to link us to a God who is not of the physical world, but who supercedes it. In the physical world, we can see the effects of God's presence, but perhaps there's something immeasurable out there, that's not part of the physical world we can see, that goes beyond, that goes to where God is.
You don't believe in God because you can't see Him. You're assuming that you can see or prove it all. But what if you can't? What if there's a part of you that exists that you can't see?
What if God is the unknown force holding strings together and making them "sing"?