Aineo, either you are purposely ignoring my questions or you are intentionally using the same statement of "You sure like to side step questions" as an excuse to avoid my questions, this is the same tactics of banned members who taught false doctrines on this board and elsewhere use. I'm not going to waste my time re-typing my rebuttal which has yet to be refuted. The large fonts isn't me yelling or screaming at you, it is me putting EMPHASIS on the words which need to be thoughtfully and meticulously considered in context. First I'm going to remove all the nonsensical rebuttals you have posed time and again so that you may actually give an answer to my legitimate questions.
Aineo wrote:My question to you was to define essential doctrine. Cornelius was not brought to Christ via essential doctrines and neither were the apostles. Cornelius and the apostles were brought to Christ via faith and faith alone since only by faith is one saved.
Also you are once again contradicting yourself since you posted that the Holy Spirit deals with individuals and their faith.
Romans 10:7-10
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"-- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. NAS
My question nor your question has anything to do with my rebuttal, it is not about how we are saved but that departure from the faith is in no way an indication of persons possessing Salvation or an indication of belief which stems from the heart anymore than self-professing christians and false converts departing from the Christianity.
Aineo wrote:Catholicism is a system of esstential doctrines as are the LDS, JW's and etc. What distinguishes these three and other false religions is they either add to God's truth or deny portions of God's truth resulting in the nullification of "salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ". Now since religions are made up of people who accept heretical doctrines what this commentator is addressing is apostasy, which is what this thread is about and totally disproves OSAS.
How can a believer be lead by the Spirit without doctrine? There is a simple and Biblical response to your question:
Aineo, I could care less how the commentary interpreted that passage, why? You are a commentator, I am a commentator, anyone on this forum is a commentator. I said this before if you hadn't skimmed past my posts, there has been major discrepancies between interpretations and commentators of theologians, pastors and others due to personal opinions, interpretations and doctrinal bias. This is the very reason as to why the scriptures tell us to:
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)
Aineo wrote:Jesus said that some would fall way and only "he who endures to the end shall be saved", which the Holy Spirit explicity revealed to Paul in 1 Timothy, a fact you refuse to accept.
Faith is the only essential Christian doctrine all other doctrines not based on walking by faith are manmade doctrines and/or doctrines of demons.
A FACT not I refuse to accept but you as I will again in crystal clear clarity explain. Faith is essential to Salvation, however 1 Timothy 4:1 in no way, shape or form proves that those who depart either possessed Salvation or faith which is a gross and prejudice interpretation of that passage.
Aineo wrote:So the only way you or I or anyone can determine with any certainty who is or is not saved is to wait until the end when those who are saved will be taken in the first resurrection.
And for the third or fourth time, your commentary is in absolute contradiction to Jesus's word, in other words, you are refuting your own arguments. I'm not saved, your are not saved, those whom you claimed to have
lost their salvation were never saved. and neither is anyone alive today saved until the end.
It is not definite article which determines the correct meaning, but the CONTEXT of the passage. Just as "the god" of this world and "the God"of Abraham obviously have completely different meaning in context. There are instances when pistis is preceded by "the" in the Greek and is an indication of absolute trust in God. Then there are examples where "the faith (pistis)" refers to the Gospel or "the truth".
DEPART:
[868]aphistemi,
af-is'-tay-mee; from 575 and 2476;
to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.:--depart, draw (fall) away, refrain,
withdraw self.
- Luke 2:37 - And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed[868]not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
- Luke 4:13 - And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed[868] from him for a season.
- Acts 12:10 - When they were past the first and the second ward, they came unto the iron gate that leadeth unto the city; which opened to them of his own accord: and they went out, and passed on through one street; and forthwith the angel departed[868] from him.
- Acts 15:38 - But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed[868] from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work.
- Acts 19:9 - But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed[868] from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
- Acts 22:29 - Then straightway they departed[868] from him which should have examined him: and the chief captain also was afraid, after he knew that he was a Roman, and because he had bound him.
- 2 Corinthians 12:8 - For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart[868] from me.
- 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart[868] from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
- (SAME BOOK) 1 Timothy 6:5 - Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself[868]
Above are crystal clear examples of how the word "DEPART" implies withdrawal or to remove oneself from.
THE FAITH:
[4102]pistis,
pis'-tis; from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or
the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension,
the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
- Holding the mystery of the faith[4102] in a pure conscience. (1 Timothy 3:9)
- Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith[4102]: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. (1 Timothy 1:2)
- For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith[4102] which is in Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 3:13)
- Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith[4102], giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils. (1 Timothy 4:1)
- But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied (arneomai:to reject, refuse or not accept) the faith[4102], and is worse than an infidel. (1 Timothy 5:8)
- For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred(apoplanao:to stray from the truth), from the faith[4102], and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. (1 Timothy 6:10)
- Which some professing have erred(astocheo:deviate from)concerning the faith[4102]. Grace be with thee. Amen. (1 Timothy 6:21)
Timothy is referred to as Paul's "own son in (the faith);" not Paul's "own son in (faith), Paul is obviously not calling Timothy his son by faith. "Holding the mystery of the faith;" not "Holding the mystery of faith". It is not faith which is a mystery but "the faith" or the Gospel of truth of Jesus or God as in (Rom. 16:25; Mk. 4:11; Matt. 13:11; Eph. 3:3,4) both referring to the truth of God and not trust or personal faith in God and both are found in 1 Timothy. The usage of the word (pistis) is determined by the context of the passage, and not if there is an exclusion or inclusion of the definite article ("the"). Any bible student, scholar, pastor or even anyone possessing a basic understanding of grammatical context can see for themselves that at face value, "the faith" in context clearly refers to the Gospel or the truth of God, and only a person with too much pride will not admit to this. I have demonstrated with precise context how Conditional Security adherents have taken 1 Timothy 4:1 out of context and conformed it to their personal opinions and interpretation to suit their false doctrine.
POSSESSING FAITH:
- Matthew 9:2 - And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith [4102]said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
- Mark 2:5 - When Jesus saw their faith[4102], he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
- Luke 5:20 - And when he saw their faith[4102], he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart([868]aphistemi) from the faith([4102]pistis), giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils. (1 Timothy 4:1)
I am asking a legitimate question and not an excuse to avoid your questions which I have already answered, I challenge you to show me where in the above verse does it prove that someone who having once believed (possessing faith) lost their Faith or their Salvation. I could care less on the commentary of modern theologians since there are too many discrepancies and shifts in interpretations depending on their personal belief. I have shown in crystal clear clarity and in correct context that Conditional Security advocates interpretation of that passage is completely bias. A church can have a congregation of 100 people and after three weeks 20 people can
depart (withdraw, remove) from
the faith (Gospel) and then leave the Church, does this prove that those who left the Church were in fact saved or possessed faith? Absolutely not!
God Bless!