ArchivedOSAS revisited(Omega) wrote:[Depart from the faith] Aposteesontai (NT:868) ... tees (NT:3588) pisteoos (NT:4102). They will apostatize from the faith, i.e. from Christianity; renouncing the whole system in effect, by bringing in doctrines which render its essential truths null and void, or denying and renouncing such doctrines as are essential to Christianity as a system of salvation. A man may hold all the truths of Christianity, and yet render them of none effect by holding other doctrines which counteract their influence; or he may apostatize by denying some essential doctrine, though he bring in nothing heterodox.
Where in the above definition does it actually state that those who apostasize are actually saved? As a matter of fact it states that the person denies Christianity as the way of Salvation, do you consider this a saved person?
For a man who prefers to wrangle over words by redefining words to suit your purpose I should not be surprised you take "renounce" to mean "denounce". Now where in the above definition does it actually state that those who apostatize were not actually saved?
I guess we need to define words: apostate
adj : not faithful to religion or party or cause n : a disloyal person who betrays or deserts his cause or religion or political party or friend etc. [syn: deserter, renegade, turncoat, recreant, ratter]
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apostate
re·nounce P Pronunciation Key (r -nouns )
v. re·nounced, re·nounc·ing, re·nounc·es
v. tr.
1. To give up (a title, for example), especially by formal announcement. See Synonyms at relinquish.
2. To reject; disown.
Main Entry: re·nounce
Pronunciation: ri-'nauns
Function: verb
Inflected Forms: re·nounced; re·nounc·ing
transitive verb 1 : to announce one's abandonment or giving up of a right to or interest in : DISCLAIM 1 <renounce an inheritance>
2 : to refuse to follow, obey, or recognize any further <renounce allegiance to one's country> intransitive verb : to make a renunciation
renounce
v 1: give up, such as power, as of monarchs and emperors, or duties and obligations; "The King abdicated when he married a divorcee" [syn: abdicate] 2: leave (a job, post, post, or position) voluntarily; "She vacated the position when she got pregnant"; "The chairman resigned when he was found to have misappropriated funds" [syn: vacate, resign, give up] 3: turn away from; give up; "I am foreswearing women forever" [syn: foreswear, quit, relinquish] 4: cast off or disown; "She renounced her husband"; "The parents repudiated their son" [syn: repudiate]
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=renounce
2 entries found for denounce.
de·nounce P Pronunciation Key (d -nouns )tr.v. de·nounced, de·nounc·ing, de·nounc·es 1. To condemn openly as being evil or reprehensible. See Synonyms at criticize. 2. To accuse formally. 3. To give formal announcement of the ending of (a treaty).
denounce
v 1: speak out against; "He denounced the Nazis" 2: to accuse or condemn or openly or formally or brand as disgraceful; "He denounced the government action"; "She was stigmatized by society because she had a child out of wedlock" [syn: stigmatize, stigmatise, brand, mark] 3: announce the termination of, as of treaties 4: give away information about somebody; "He told on his classmate who had cheated on the exam" [syn: tell on, betray, give away, rat, grass, shit, shop, snitch, stag]
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=denounce (Omega) wrote:Furthermore, stating that I actually said anywhere in my posts that we are saved by "the faith" is not only distorting my words but also giving the illusion that you have refuted my argument which you obviously could not.
You protest against yourself. Aineo wrote:(Omega) wrote:Aineo wrote:You opening statement is interesting since the way question you have not answered is how one can fall away from something they never possessed. Therefore in order to cut through all the rhetoric you have posted in an attempt to avoid this one simple question do you think you can respond to it in your next post?
Rhetoric? Hmmm....More like your misunderstanding of the words being construed, do you read my posts or just skim through them?
Luke 8:13 uses "fall away" (aphistemi) and 1 Timothy 4:1 uses "shall depart from" also (aphistemi)
Fall away; shall depart from:ajfivsthmi aphistemi, af-is'-tay-mee; from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.:--depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
Where does it actually state that those who "fall away or depart" from the faith actually possessed it? To fall away or depart from the faith is to remove oneself or withdraw from the Christian Doctrine, do you deny that a person can withdraw from the Christian Doctrine without possessing faith? I made several examples of how this is done in my previous post and you chose to ignore it and resort to your personal opinion of how a certain passage should be translated and at the same time accuse me of taking it out of context, when in fact you refused to understand it in "Plain English" (THE) is not a personal pronoun and your excuse "context" involves taking all the words of a teaching into consideration is absurd since this is exactly what you have overlooked regarding the nature of re-birth. THE FAITH clearly refers to the Christian Doctrine and not personal faith or conviction of God, in your attempts to deny this simple logic you reach for another loophole.
According to you THE FAITH is Christian Doctrine, which anyone can adhere to without putting a personal faith in Jesus Christ.
In a prior post you stated that Muslim’s and etc. depart from the faith. Now since Muslim’s and etc. never accepted the faith they cannot depart from it. de·part P Pronunciation Key (d -pärt )
v. de·part·ed, de·part·ing, de·parts
v. intr.
1. To go away; leave.
2. To die.
3. To vary, as from a regular course; deviate: depart from custom. See Synonyms at swerve.
v. tr.
To go away from; leave.
depart
v 1: move away from a place into another direction; "Go away before I start to cry"; "The train departs at noon" [syn: go, go away] [ant: come] 2: be at variance with; be out of line with [syn: deviate, vary, diverge] [ant: conform] 3: leave; "The family took off for Florida" [syn: part, start, start out, set forth, set off, set out, take off] 4: go away or leave [syn: take leave, quit] [ant: stay] 5: remove oneself from an association with or participation in; "She wants to leave"; "The teenager left home"; "She left her position with the Red Cross"; "He left the Senate after two terms"; "after 20 years with the same company, she pulled up stakes" [syn: leave, pull up stakes] 6: wander from a direct or straight course [syn: sidetrack, digress, straggle]
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=depart
You are the one who needs to start at square one since in order to establish you thesis you have had to redefine words.
You cannot renounce something you never announced or depart from a location or position you never held. According to you I departed from London even though I have never been in England. According to you I departed from Islam even though I never accepted Islam as a valid position. What I have done is departed from gay theology and manmade doctrines like OSAS.
You have filled 6 pages with sophomoric hubris that boggles the mind of anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of the English language.
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