ArchivedOSAS revisited
A "genuine believer" is someone who is saved and you have yet to actually prove that someone who have once obtained Salvation can actually lose it. I have explained it many times on this thread that there is a major distinction between just belief and a belief that saves, read the book of James where there is a clear distinction between the belief that demons possess and the belief that actually saves a person. What you and all Conditional Security adherents are complete blinded to is the clear distinction between departing or falling away from "THE FAITH" and having faith! What is considered "The faith?" You use the example of how gay theologists take scriptures out of context with "love your neighbor as yourself" to justify homosexuality, which is exactly what you and other conditional security adherents have done with the phrase "THE FAITH". In the context of those passages, "the faith" clearly does not indicate personal faith because muslims, atheists, agnostics, satanists, et al. can depart from (the faith) while never possessing faith in the first place. Now context is usually if not always determined by the words that precede or follow the word being defined, the word for "faith" (pistis) can refer to (conviction of the truth) OR (the religious belief of Christians). Since "the" is not a personal pronoun, the context of that verse cannot refer to a personal conviction of the truth but rather the religious belief of Christianity. In order for someone to depart or fall away from the faith in the first place is that they must first possess it, right? WRONG! An atheist can easily join a church, listen to the religious belief and creeds of Christianity and depart from it, i.e., "the faith!" Why does Paul go through the trouble of warning the Church and not those outside the Church?
Except ye be reprobates (Unless you are counterfeits). The challenge Paul had brought about was to ascertain whether they are genuine believers or fakes. We are not reprobates, regardless of how the Corinthians came out in the test, they are assured that Paul was genuine. Notice they play on words between proof (dokimen:evidence) and reprobates (adokimoi:counterfeits). And to say that this doesn't apply to modern day Christians is to say that Paul's warnings of departing from the faith neither applies to Christians of today.
An apostate is someone who defects from the truth, do you challenge this definition? FALLING AWAY:ajpostasiva apostasia, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):--falling away, forsake. Those in 1 John 2:19 departed from the faith. Furthermore I don't appreciate your constant insinuations of how OSAS adherents using that doctrine as an excuse to escape the lake of fire. Your hostility towards those who adhere to this doctrine is noted.
Believed in their hearts? How do you know this? How do you know that these SBC members believed within their hearts, in all honesty it sounds a bit hypocritical and arrogant? Only God and God alone is able to search the hearts (Rom. 8:27; Rev. 2:23) The OSASavers who willfully sin and teach the doctrine as an excuse to avoid the lake of fire are false converts and hypocrites. Feel free to call them apostates because the definition fits to a tee, however I truly hope that you are not in any way insinuating that I am a person who willfully sins or is an apostate. I personally know many (including me) who uphold the doctrine of eternal security who are wholeheartedly devoted to God, who flee from sin, feed the indigent, clothe the naked and love their enemies and even pray for them. Just as you have once believed in OSAS, I once believed in Conditional Security until I searched the scriptures for MYSELF and discovered that it is one of the most deceptive doctrines in the Christian world. You keep using the SBC as a standard for OSASavers which is quite lame since not everyone who adheres to the eternal security doctrine are southern baptists. If the SBC actually believes that you can commit sins listed on the roster and still enter heaven, then they have turned the grace of God into lasciviousness, this is not what all OSASavers believe, it is primarily the SBC denomination. Now as for the broken branches of Rom. 11:22, the broken branches do not refer to believers who lost their faith or salvation, a broken branch refers to an unbeliever that never was saved nor was a believer. The broken branches refer to the Jews or the unbelief of Israel, NOT Christians who once possessed faith and then lost it, the Gentiles found favor with God here because of their belief. You dance around my questions by answering them with your own and assume that I haven't made my case when this entire thread is filled with rebuttals to your fallacious and erroneous arguments. You won't change your position and neither will I. God Bless! |
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