Muslim & Christian Discussion ForumPlease try and convince me otherwise. :: Re: replyRe: reply uhhh, wrong... just because for example - Canada went to make war against the axis - doesn't mean they get a free ticket to make war a state policy. Just because a war is now in their history... doesn't mean Canada is a cruel and barbaric nation or persues so to be. Ishaq:576 “Allah and Muhammad humiliated every coward and made our religion victorious. We were glorified and destroyed them all. By what our Apostle recites from the Book and by our swift horses, I liked the punishment the infidels received. Killing them was sweeter than drink. We galloped among them panting for the spoil. With our loud-voiced army, the Apostle’s squadron advanced into the fray.” Tabari VIII:141 “The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!’” Ishaq:489 “Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing.” you converted in on of those unshameful killers too. speak for yourself, you're trying to defend a permanent doctrine for War here. Not me. yes! compare these dictators to Muhammed. Muslim:C20B1N4597 “The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: ‘There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.’” This is what Hitler promised his people too the first day he attacked Poland "their is no more immigration, only war". Do you praize him too? The Islamic scriptures order Muslims to fight and kill non-Muslims until there are no more non-Muslims and you want to cultivate altruism. Allah orders Muslims to kill all peaceful Muslims and you think that we should ignore such a dogma. Islam has enslaved a billion people who have no freedoms and no way to determine their own destiny as individuals and you want to leave them to be abused by their dictators. Wow! I suppose you think it was a good idea to ignore Mein Kampf too and let Hitler kill six million Jews. Allowing Stalin and Mao to cultivate their own path led to the deaths of 20 million Russians and 30 million Chinese. But I'm sure it would have been all better if we had understood and appreciated their need to mutilate others. hahahaha, you are gonna wish you never said this. KILLING/RAPING OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN: Bukhari:V4B52N256 “The Prophet passed by and was asked whether it was permissible to attack infidels at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, ‘Their women and children are from them.’” Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said. ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’” Qur’an 70:28 “Preserve their chastity except with their wives and the slave girls they possess—for which there is no blame.” Tabari VIII:38 “The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims.” KILLING UNSUSPECTING SOLDIERS: Qur’an 7:3 “Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.” DESTROYING HOMES: Bukhari:V1B11N626 “The Prophet said, ‘No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr. If they knew the reward they would come to (the mosque) even if they had to crawl. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.’” that's plain muslim propaganda... muhammed was never attacked. This Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.” was his only goal crusadic wars and gaining booty. This is a definition of Jihad found in Bukhari. I think it speaks for itself. “Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its Pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah is made superior and He becomes the only God who may be worshiped. By Jihad Islam is propagated and made superior. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, and Muslim rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape this duty, or does not fervently fulfill this obligation, dies as a hypocrite.” Sure, and he was peacefull too i guess? first of, there is no contest of cruelty. And if there was, you're quran and hadiths would win hands down... Thirdly it's more disgusting that your quran provoce's war, instead of a bible who read in progressive context. condemns it. I'm pleased that you are not a terrorist. But I have some bad news for you. According to the Qur'an, if you aren't leaving your home to fight jihad in Allah's Cause, you are a hypocrite, and you are no longer a Muslim. Furthermore, according to the Qur'an, your god hates you. Allah's most repetitive theme in the Mecca surahs is the pain and punishment he will personally inflict in hell. Allah's most repetitive theme in the Medina surahs is that peaceful Muslims are hypocrites and that they will endure the worst of these tortures. “Allah’s Apostle dictated the Divine Verse: ‘Not equal are those unbelievers who sit at home and those who strive hard, fighting in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives.’” (Bukhari V4B52N85). fighting IS righteous according to Islam. Qur’an 61:4 “Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause.” Ishaq:300 “I am fighting in Allah’s service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah’s war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good.” and what are the limits? as far as i have seen muhammed doesn't have any limits... and you can go as far as your al insan el kamil goes in doing war. Islam must have one of the most cruel army on earth. Just like those decapitating heads in Iraq, so did Muhammed order the same thing against pagans. You must believe too, that is still within the justified limits? Tabari IX:69 “Arabs were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us.” see, permanent doctrine for war... no defending whatsoever discarded on behalf of what? because their falsehood had been proven!!!! have you acctually studied christian scripture? are you always that easily to condemn or form opinions without knowledge? then again you did convert to islam... so that probably answers it. it's ten too thirty years after it. If you wanna be correct... Muhammed's quran is 200 years after it, and had people who had no divine authority were compiling that thing saying "this is holy, and this isn't". Thirdly it is not impossible for them to have remembered... as they were guided by the holy spirit and secondly are in agreeance with each other. no it wasn't impossible to make mistakes, the latin vulgata had one for many centuries untill it was corrected... Should we pretend as if it wasn't a mistake and belief in lies? no we need to respect truth, and seek it. A book will not protect itself, regardless of what you belief. Saint Thomas of Aquinas was a 14th century theologian, not the aliged apostle of Christ. Yet the Gospel of Thomas isn't that damaging to Christianity it's seen as a collection of Jesus' words. But it isn't accepted because the Gospel starts with gnostism "whoever understands these words will have eternal life" and because only two copies of it were found... wich is not enough to confirm it's truthfullness. All the canonized gospels have al least 100 copies found to verify and compare possible writing errors with each other.
Funny, first you used influence of cultures against an argument against christianity, now you blame your own religion of the same. While i explained that such influence of external cultures in the NT is this to nothing. like the satanic verses? and i wouldn't use this as proof of plagiarism THIS http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=6251 is proof of plagiarism uhh, Saul maybe was from Tarsus, but he definitly was a Jew... a Jew wich his ancenstors decended from the Tribe of Judah. the language doesn't matter, and it was copied into greek according to scriptual research. Secondly it was Constantine the first who associated many roman traditions with christendom. In order to spread the religion faster. I have no problem with that, it's not a part of christianity, neither is it nowhere forbidden to have days to remember christ with. It's the free choice of a christian to celebrate christmas or not. Many do, many don't. You won't go to hell over it.
i have quoted you more then enough, that proofs that your wishfull thinking is nothing more then that.
you must have some darn good mullah's if you insist on beliefing this. Or a major dissrespect for your own intelligence. haha, another myth you allready read the Jihad definition given by Muhammed in Bukhari let's top that one: Jihad,” “holy fighting,” or “Allah’s Cause,” is spoken of in the Hadith as follows: “Allah’s Apostle dictated the Divine Verse: ‘Not equal are those unbelievers who sit at home and those who strive hard, fighting in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives.’” (Bukhari V4B52N85). The Qur’an says, “Zaid said, ‘Maktum came to the Prophet while he was reciting that verse. On that Maktum said, “O Allah’s Apostle! If I had power, I would take part in Jihad.” He was a blind man. So Allah sent down revelation to His Apostle ... “Except those who are disabled by injury or are blind or lame.”’” (Qur’an 004:095) If jihad is a spiritual struggle as many claim it to be, then why would Allah grant the physically disabled an exemption? The verse goes on to say, “Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no injurious hurt, and those who strive hard [Jihad] fighting in the Cause of Allah, fighting with their wealth and bodies to those who sit (at home).” Jesus is the NT of the Bible, and Pauline doesn't contradict anything. You're just heir of the hatred the jews had towards the christians... Jews first used muhammed as a puppet (as their are quotes in the hadiths that show jews tricked muhammed, etc....), and now you vouch for the puppet. WHAT? worshipping Jesus flesh? do you think we are gnostics or something? or have you no idea what christianity is about? then it's no wonder you converted to Islam. I worship God, and like you said and i totally agree with you... you worship something entirely else.
it doesn't have mary in the trinity? lol "And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden." Qur’an 5:116 and i don't believe in your shirk. The Quran asks for example, "Have you seen the one who has taken his desires as his Lord beside God?" .... The Quran says that people take their desires, wealth, lusts, etc. as gods beside Allah, as they are seeking pleasure, and are putting faith in things outside of the Lord God like women: Ishaq:499 “The Apostle provided some compensation that included a castle, some property, a portion of the zakat tax, and a Copt slave girl.” Thievery: Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The captives of Khaybar were divided among the Muslims. Then the Messenger began taking the homes and property that were closest to him.” and love of money: Ishaq:510 “We ask Thee for the booty of this town and its people. Forward in the name of Allah.’ He used to say this of every town he raided.” Qur’an 48:19 “He rewarded them with abundant spoils that they will capture. Allah has promised you much booty that you shall take, and He has made this easy for you.” Qur’an 8:69 “So enjoy what you took as booty; the spoils are lawful and good.” Qur’an 9:59 “(How much more seemly) if only they had been content with what Allah and His Messenger gave them, and said, ‘Sufficient is Allah! His Messenger will soon give us His bounty. We implore Allah to enrich us.’” Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’” and on the other hand you'd be supporting on how much the quran emphasizes on Mary by devoting an entire chapter to her name. Hypocrit. The Catholics unlike your islamic terms do not see Mary as God, sure they exalt her on behalf of traditions and reoccuring miracles in wich they believe Mary is the woman of the Church, the protector of the Roman Catholic Church. And i see no problem with that, even they believe Mary bows down before God, just as they do. yeah and Paul changed his ways and became one of the most devote christians who eventually was martyred over it. Paul was in full agreeance of Jesus' message. Now interesting you mentioned false prophets, and can we use muhammed in this category for once? Muhammed came 700 years after Jesus ascended to heaven Muhammed faught and blasphemed Christianity zealously and Muhammed had a agenda (Islam) against them as well Jesus said to spread the religion to all nations, and the gospel to be teached all over the world. if you want i'll quote Jesus' words, but that would just embarrass you again. Peter knew Jesus during his ministry in wich he came for the jews first... the ministry for the gentiles only happend after his ascension. no it wouldn't, you allready have an answer ready, regardless what people will throw at you. "It's not possible" you will say, and why will you say that? because your quran says you need to say this. You're demand is illogical and can't be answered, unless you rid yourself of your dogma's. see, i do not really care what you think about them, cause i read the quran, and i think it's pretty pathetic too. Why would i have to come up with text that is equally pathetic? no it isn't, that's your opinion. I think the quran is repetitious unchronological crap. Why should your opinion be more correct then mine? Why do you discredit the beliefs of Sikhs and Baha'i when they think similar.
so what! Muhammed doesn't come anywhere near a bad poet. Let alone a magnificent one. the poets ridiculed muhammed in his day, and he ordered them to be killed. sure you do not want me to quote that. It will only embarass you even more. Plus as i said before, the quran is one giant plagiarized book, to even assume he wrote it himself is ridiculous and a insult to all the myth makers who wrote the apocrypha that muhammed copied. That's why he was mocked, and ridiculed all his life, untill he gained enough power to fight and opress those that didn't agree with his madman rantings. God didn't make a covenant with Abraham. Ishmael was not given anything of a promise that would grant divine revelation. Plus your religion says that all nations are granted a prophet, it allready discards any previous covenants made. trough bloodshed and opression. You may be proud of that. your so confident to believe christianity is man established yet you can't even proof your own religion is divine. Neither can you dissproof christianity other then holding on to muslim conspiracy theories. And Joseph Smith did exactly the same as muhammed no doubt about it like i said and you confirmed... they are on the SAME bandwagon.
proof it. infested with christian sects and jews non the less. he only had to pick up hearsay. Plus muhammed was a merchant before he became a madman... you really think merchants are that dumb? I thought merchants are cunning. read all about pre-islamic arabia here. http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MH_LM/arabia_before_islam.htm
that's an opinion not a fact, i think it's the most dangerous book on earth. and wich should of been banished and burned long time ago. tell me when you stop joking, i like to keep this debate serious. . and according to you Hitler was saved by God, by miraculously dodging countless of assassination attempts... plus Hitler claimed to do God's work too. Why not follow Hitler? he's as peacefull as muhammed and has as many prophecies and miracles to his name. and who's Joseph? yeah right, i doubt you ever visited a muslim country... more then 3/4 never picked up a quran themselves and are muslim by tradition. In fact studies have proven that converts are ten times more fundemental then traditional muslims, who don't even adhere to the five time prayers anymore. he didn't? "Charles Taze Russell, thou hast, by the Lord, been crowned a king; and through the everlasting ages thy name shall be known amongst the people, and thy enemies shall come and worship at thy feet. " -- The Watchtower Reprints Brooklyn, NY: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1919 p. 6015 "The special messenger to the last Age of the Church was Charles T. Russell, born February 16, 1852. He has privately admitted his belief that he was chosen for his great work from before his birth." -- Russell, Charles Taze The Finished Mystery (Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 7) Brooklyn, NY: International Bible Students Association, 1917 p. 31 "He did a greater work for the cause of Messiah’s kingdom than did any other man that ever lived on the earth. " -- Russell, Charles Taze The Divine Plan of the Ages (Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 1) Brooklyn, NY: International Bible Students Association, 1927 p. 63 well i have no prophecy either! come follow me, i'll write you a book too. No israel was promised the Word of God AND the Messiah. To be a example for all nations. NOT any other nation. yeah and frustrated angry hostile people are more in line with your religion, is that why you seek such attributes? to justify your war religion?
so it's okay to have concubines according to you? i don't know why you wanna keep on trying to drag moses down with you even if you don't know things for certain like 'probably' but David and Solomon were punished for their behaviour by God. You are saying that Allah loves concubining prophets. read your quran, i have made this post long enough as it is i can see context in the bible... i only see hatred in the quran. |
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