ArchivedThe Truth and truths
I have an analogy. This happend in REAL LIFE to me in High School. This is not religious, however I feel it applies. I had been talking to a friend in art class. This was not during lecture or public speaking or anything...we were drawing and chatting. I said, "I think Picasso sucks". My instructor heard me. The following is a brief summation of our conversation: I(nstructor): What did you just say?!?! M(e): I said I think Picasso sucks. I don't care for his art. I: You're wrong! M: Pardon me? It's an opinion. I think I'm entitled to my opinion, aren't I? I: Thousands of trained people think that his work is wonderful! M: Ok, but I still think he sucks. I: You're wrong! ...ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Subsequently I got sent to the principal's office and got kicked out of class - all because some holier-than-thou jerk felt that I wasn't entitled to my opinion. Religion is opinion. I don't care what kind of research Joe down the block has done - if he can't present to me logical solid arguments for what he believes, he doesn't have the right to insist that his opinion is somehow better than mine. What I do care about is allowing people to learn things for themselves - if they ask for help, then help, but if not, it's not your place to force your will upon them. Since I was in High School, I have actually encountered some artwork by Picasso that I rather liked. For the most part, though, I think he sucks. My religion teaches tolerance. It teaches acceptance. It does not teach me to pretend to be tolerant so that I can push my opinions onto them. What I must understand is that nobody has the right to try to force their beliefs on me. As soon as someone tries, I push back that much harder. I have plenty of Christian, Mormon, Catholic, and Muslim friends that I can have long theological discussions with and nobody walks away with a bad taste in their mouths. Generally we agree to disagree and move on, although we'll generally hit on the same topics later. After speaking to some Christians (generally the ones that feel the need to shove their theology down my throat) I feel like I need a shower. Presumably the same way you know that when you pray to Jesus he's listening. Not because it's written in a book, but because you feel a connection there... Sometimes. But they were my decisions to make, not a mold that I had to fit into to feel loved and accepted. Let's face it, according to the Bible if I have sex outside of wedlock with other consenting adults, it doesn't matter how many times I ask to be forgiven - if I don't stop doing it, I still go to Hell, right? I have to want to stop having sex out of wedlock, right? Personally, I don't see harm in that particular activity. As a Christian I would be living a lie - either I would be having sex and wondering why it was so wrong, or I would stop having sex (out of wedlock) and feel like I gave up something that was important to me. Either way I would be wrong. That is why the Christian mold cannot fit everyone, and it's likely why there are so many "so called Christians" out there... If I did something that ruined my relationship with them (it rarely (if ever) happened, but hypothetically) I would expect whatever repercussions came my way. If they desired to terminate the relationship, I accepted (and understood that). If I did something wrong. That's an important statement. Many of the guidelines for Christianity I see absolutely nothing wrong with. As above, I would be living a lie to attempt to be a Christian, regardless of how I lived my life - it would be a lie. Of course, that doesn't really answer the question...would I want to be forgiven...? I suppose, but for me the question really doesn't make much sense. I am who I am and I live my life the way that I choose to live my life. Anyone that decides to persue a relationship with me knows that, and because I'm completely open and honest about my life there are very few surprises. I'll give you an example: I download alot of porn and masterbate a bit (I wouldn't say alot - not compared to my younger days ). My wife, when we met, did not like that. She didn't like my downloading porn. Did that stop me? No. But because we were (at the time) sharing a computer I tucked it away so she did not have to "accidentally" view it (that was her request, by the way). At this point she knows I download porn and masterbate and has accepted that as part of what makes me "me". I don't see anything wrong with that, and she has been unable to convince me that it's wrong - therefore I still do it (when I feel the urge to) and neither of us makes a big deal. Do I want to be forgiven? Not really, because there's nothing to be forgiven for, in my opinion. I don't see anything wrong with it. Would I prefer it if she felt the same way? Yeah, but that doesn't mean I should force her (or attempt to) to see it the same way I do. All I have to do is allow her the opportunity to not have to see it, and she allows me the opportunity to see it when I like. It's called "compromise". There's no compromise with Christianity... What makes you think that we parted our ways in anger? Who said anything about that? You have no idea what my emotional states are or were - please don't presume to judge what I have and haven't felt - you are not me. Many of them I still love. Many of them I no longer love because they turned out not to be the person I thought they were. Many of them I still love despite finding out who they really were. Most of my relationships were disolved after finding out that we just weren't compatable. Not that we were bad people or even bad for each other, just that we didn't make each other as happy as we should have. You, in the above statement, have called me angry and selfish. I assure you, I am neither, although I don't believe in anything as elusive as "selflessness". That too is another conversation, however my simple response to your insults is that everyone is selfish to some extent. When it begins harming other people is where most people draw the line, but there's always an ulterior motive. Regardless, I felt love in the past and have had it leave. Does that mean that "they didn't suit my purposes" so I stopped loving? No. The short story of one such person is my father. I loved him dearly despite being an abusive, cheating, alcoholic. I no longer love him (he's dead now, going on 11 years), and haven't for about 15 years. Why? Because I gave up on him. I realized that I loved him for the wrong reasons - because he was family. The right reasons to love someone (IMO) are what's in their heart, not what's in their blood. My father had few redeemable qualities (also IMO), so I stopped loving him. I gave him plenty of opportunities even after I stopped loving him just in case - opportunities to act like a father and a human being. I even told him (eventually) when he was getting another chance. Eventually I gave up, as some people just can't be helped. If he actually existed I may well have loved him. I don't know if he existed (or exists) and have been given no evidence to support claims that he has/does. What I believe about Jesus is that he died for what he believed. Does that make him right? Of course not - lots of people have died for beliefs that eventually proved to be wrong. Do I agree with the Romans? Not really - although I wasn't there. Circumstances which may have existed although not ended up in print may have shown the stories to be much different than what's laid out in the Bible. Does that make the Bible wrong? Not necessarily, although it certainly doesn't prove them correct. Attempting to appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy, by the way. How about appealing to my intelligence instead? I'm going to answer this part here, because it wasn't above My religion does not tell me that Christians are wrong. That is the difference. My religion also does not tell me, "Go out and convert as many people as possible!" My religion tells me to go out and help people. It tells me to help people understand themselves better so that they can make their own decisions in life. It tells me that your religion is right for you, that it helps you get through the hard parts of your life, and sometimes I may have to swallow a load of crap so that you have the right to continue believing it. Do I agree with your religion? No. But I also don't agree with telling someone that their opinion is wrong - and when it comes down to brass tacks, all religion is is opinion. I'm hoping that some of what I said above (in the post, not just the last paragraph) has made sense to you. One of the fundamental differences between our belief structures is how Theology is approached - what makes perfect sense to me would seem like ancient Egyptian to you and vice versa...I'm still working on explaining things from different angles so that it makes sense to everyone :winK: |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame