ArchivedInterpreting the Holy Book. :: Re: LeonRe: Leon No problem. I just want to make sure our discussion is not side tracked with misunderstandings. Agreed. The concept of God's "divine timelessness" is easily misunderstood because people try to conceptualize God within the context of physical reality. In other words, people try to view how God works or exists from a physical perspective, while the correct approach is to conceptualize how God works and exists from outside of all physical reality. God is the self-existent one ( ref. Exodus 3:14, John 8:58 ), which means that God exists in an all-transcendent static state that only applies to himself. This thought is echoed in John 1:1-2, 14, where John calls the pre-incarnate divine spirit of Jesus Christ "the Word," or the Logos (Strong's #3056). Here, the term Logos is used within the context of Greek philosophy. The word Logos is a Greek philosophical term that, broadly speaking, refers to the universal reason that underlines reality. Thus, John applied this term to Christ's divine spirit to describe him as the ultimate reason or ultimate reality from which the Universe comes from, which correlates to the self-existence of God (ref. Exodus 3:14). And the reason why John used this philosophical term to describe Christ was because Greek ideas were widely circulated during this time. Thus, one must define God within the context of his self-existence and how he underlines all reality. In other words, God is his own context. You are engaging in non sequitur reasoning. Just because God is omnipresent does not mean that he causes all things. To the contrary, his omnipresence gives him "foreknowledge" or knowledge apart from predestining events. Therefore, God can act on this knowledge when he deems the time to be right, for he is omnipotent. From your perspective, why does the existence of God's foreknowledge necessitate total predestination? No, because not all cause and effect is co-equal in nature or effect. A line of causes and effects can be altered by, merged with, or divided into other causes and effects. Therefore, the cause and effect you speak of is not the start of a homogeneous line of causes and effects. Instead, it is a cause and effect situation that resulted in multiple lines of causes and effects that intermingle throughout physical history. But that is only half of what Romans 8:29-30 states. God predestines based on foreknowledge, thereby indicating that free will activity is the reason why God predestines certain people to be saved. No, I understand what you are saying and I agree. My quest to expand my knowledge usually leads me into the realm of quantitative theoretics, so I am quite familiar with such conversations. Excellent. |
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