H2O wrote:Loki Quotes Muir Who wrote:Hostile declarations against Jews and Christians.
The exclusive and growingly intolerant position of Islam is sufficiently manifested by the ban issued against the Jews and Christians, as unfit for the sacred rites and holy precincts of the Meccan temple; and by the Divine command to war against them until, in confession of the superiority of Islam, they should consent to the payment of a tribute.
Non muslims are prohibited from the sacred sites point blank. What business does a non muslim have going to our sacred sites ? There were banned yes from these locations after the Islamic state was established whereas Muir then speaks of the Jizyah tax when a non-muslim lives in a Islamic state. What rights do you have to be there? Right after this Muir states :
Why war untill conversion or taxing H20? that's the real question, jews cared as much about mosques as they did about churches... nothing whatsoever... it's Islam that became hostile and intolerant towards them, not the jews and christians towards islam, don't reverse the roles her.
Tabari VIII:130 “The Messenger said, ‘Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.’ Umar investigated the matter, then sent to the Jews, saying: ‘Allah has given permission for you to be expelled.”
and when the ban didn't work, he used the sword to achieve his goal.
It may be interesting to illustrate the practical treatment of Christianity by
Mahomet after his acquisition of political power, by the treaties entered into with Christian tribes. The following passage from one of the early biographers relates to the important Christian settlement of Najran. The Prophet of the Lord wrote to the Bishop of the Bani Harith, and the Bishops of Najran, and their Priests, and all that followed them, and their Monks;-saying, that they should continue in (the possession and practice of) everything small and great, as it then stood, in their churches, their prayers, and their monasteries. The pledge of God and of His prophet was given that no Bishop should be removed from his bishoprick, nor any Monk from his monastery, nor any Priest from his priesthood; that their authority and rights should not be altered, nor any thing whatever which was customary amongst them; so long as they conducted themselves peaceably and uprightly. They shall not be burdened with oppression, neither shall they oppress."41
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Books/Mui ... /chap7.htm
Our prophets conquest of political power was established after the siege of Makkah when the Jizyah was law inforced.
I think that that was, what i was trying to say in the first place
How could you think you would live in a country without paying its taxes. Muir's reference is speaking about the Jizyah, whereas after that he speaks about their treatments under their submission to the Jizyah.
It's one thing for taxes, it's another to negativly discriminate groups because of their beliefs... that is very wrong, imagine the US did this with black people.... "we the white race are superior in thought, godlyness and authority, from now on you excist because we let you and because you pay special taxes for being black" pretty disgusting not.... quran threats non muslims as second rank citizens. christians protect every man of every religion, while muslims only care about muslims
What you think Christians and Jews can be free loaders in an Islamic state? You cant even do that in a secular or communist country. Jesus would even agree to it as he said "..render to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar.." which was the same issue dealing with taxes impossed upon the Jews if his time. If they didnt pay they would be punished or exiled from the Land.
if you ever read Adam Smith, then render to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar is easily seen as capitalism as well... what you earn belongs to you, while in communism you earn what doesn't belong to you as well (doctors get as much as street workers for example). The taxes of Ceasar where on everybody, and where used to pay the armies, making aquaducts, paving roads, everything that made the glory of the roman empire was made by the money of the taxing of the people of the empire.
If you live in my house and you refuse to pay me my rent you better believe you are going to get the boot.
see your mixing things with rent, and with punishment for being different... the jiyza is a fine, a punishment for not believing in muhammed. It's a means of forcing conversion...
Loki wrote:gimme the URL to the book, and themself confining that they are christians for the above mentioned reasons.
The other Authors of those books are not availabe online. However they are available in your local library and online to order from online book stores.
well, most authors i read are dutch
and since it's a secular market here, many of these american religious books never hit translation over here. They'd have to be best sellers. So i'm acctually depended on online versions of the books
Well luckely we don't destroy books (like the muslims did with manichean, zoroastrian scriptures,...), (librabry in india wich contained original letter of the third caliph), and (countless of works from their most prominent western philosopher Averroës) that i will run into enough Islam books with many different views that i don't have any need for the one's you are proposing