Oops ! I almost forgot about this thread
Loki wrote:For every contradiction i will return you a quranic one... just not to keep this debate one sided
No problem we will answer these allegations the same as you answered the allegation against the Bible without us having to alienate our readers. Just as we have not contested against your explanation please respect the same with our explanation of your alleged contradictions.
Loki wrote:Allah's clock ain't working:
- Allah's day is a 1000 years [32]
- Allah's day is 50.000 years [70]
was it thousand or a fifty thousand years?
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
He regulates the command from the heavens to the earth and then it (The Command) ascends to him in a day that is measured as a thousand years of what is your reckoning [32]
Here the subject is “the command” that Allah regulates throughout the heavens and the Earth that returns back to him in a day which is one thousand years of our time.
..The angels and the spirit ascend to him (Allah) in a day which is measured as fifty thousand years [70]
The subject here is “the angels” and “the spirit” not “the command” that is mentioned in 32:5. Also the “fifty thousand years” is not specified if it is of our time or not. Let’s add another verse to this:
….and verily a day before your Lord is like a thousand years from what is your reckoning [22]
As we have shown 32:5 and 70:4 are completely two different subjects whereas also the “fifty thousand years” mentioned does not specify if the time period is of our reckoning or not which leads to assumptions not understanding that the verse is speaking of
a non physical existence where time, space, and velocity is different from our own state of existence.
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Loki wrote:Where does the evil in our lifes come from?
- Satan? [38]
- Ourselves?[4]
- Allah? [4]
Will Allah put himself in hell for allowing us to sin? will we be responsible for our sins, or will it be all allah's fault?
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
And remember our servant Job (Ayyub) when he cried to his Lord, “The devil has afflicted me with toil and suffering [38]
Wherever you all are death will find you even if you are in enforced towers and if good (hasanah) befalls them they will say “this is from Allah”, and if evil (sayyiah) befalls them they will say “this is from you (Muhammad)” Say (to them Muhammad) “All is from Allah” ………… [4]
Whatever good befalls you then it is from Allah; and whatever evil befalls you it is from your self and We have sent you (Muhammad) as a Messenger for all mankind [4]
Arabic Definitions:
Sayyiah ~ sin, bad or evil i.e. the deeds of people
Hasanah ~ good i.e. the deeds of people
In 4:78 the Arabic phrases “min ‘indi-llah” ~ “from Allah” and “min indi’ka” ~ “from you” compared to the Arabic phrases in verse 4:79 “min Allah” ~ “from Allah” and “min safsik” ~ “from your self” have different implications.
If our readers have noticed there is an Arabic word in the Arabic phrases in 4:78 that is not translated into English. The Arabic word is “’indi” [
meaning in the presence of, before] in “min indi-llah” etc which is
impersonal that literally means “from before Allah” and not “from Allah” (min Allah) himself.
The evil and good deeds, sayyiah wa hasanah, that we do are always before or in the presence of Allah whereas when these things befall us they come from his presence of what we have done and not personally from Allah (min Allah) himself. For those that do good deeds they receive double reward, one from his presence i.e. what which we have done and the other personally from himself.
However whatever evil comes upon us from what is before Allah of our own deeds or trials they only befall us by his permission in which they are allowed to happen.
[64] No kind of calamity can occur, except by the leave of Allah: and if anyone believes in Allah, (Allah) guides his heart (aright): for Allah knows all things.
For Ayyub his calamity was a trial that was permitted by Allah to happen that was a test.
Every soul shall taste death and we test you all with evil (sharr) and good (khair) as a trial [21]
Arabic Definitions:
sharr ~ affliction ,calamity, tribulation, disease
khair ~ good, blessings, grace, healthy
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding.
Loki wrote:Persecute unbelievers? or forgive them?:
- Persecute the unbelievers [9]
- Forgive the unbelievers [45]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[9] Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
[14] Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: it is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned.
9:29 is blunt to the point that those who tend to live in a Muslim or Islamic state that are not Muslim must pay the Jizyah ( a non Muslim tax) just like how you would have to pay taxes in any other country if you intent to live there. If you do not pay the tax those who refuse to pay it will be fought against. This is a common rule in any country; if you don’t pay the tax they take action against you. Do you expect to live in a country without paying taxes ?
Jizyah ~ a tax paid by non-Muslims living in a Muslim State. Since the non-Muslims are exempt from military service and taxes imposed on Muslims, they must pay this tax to compensate. It guarentees them security and protection. If the State cannot protect those who paid jizyah, then the amount they paid is returned to them.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/g ... IZYAH.html
Being that non Muslims cannot pay the Zakat which is also a Tax that Muslims have to pay ordered by Allah in the Quran then they are to pay the Jizyah to avoid religious infringement of the zakat. If they pay the taxes they are to be lift alone in peace.
45:14 has nothing to do with persecution of unbelievers. The verse in its context is referred to Sinful dealers of falsehood to forgive them.
[45] Woe to each sinful dealer in Falsehoods:
[45] He hears the Signs of Allah rehearsed to him, yet is obstinate and lofty, as if he had not heard them: then announce to him a Penalty Grievous!
[45] And when he learns something of Our Signs, he takes them in jest: for such there will be a humiliating Penalty.
[45] In front of them is Hell: and of no profit to them is anything they may have earned, nor any protectors they may have taken to themselves besides Allah: for them is a tremendous Penalty.
[45] This is (true) Guidance: and for those who reject the Signs of their Lord, is a grievous Penalty of abomination.
[45] It is Allah Who has subjected the sea to you, that ships may sail through it by His command, that ye may seek of His Bounty, and that ye may be grateful.
[45] And He has subjected to you, as from Him, all that is in the heavens and on earth: behold, in that are Signs indeed for those who reflect.
[45] Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: it is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned.
[45] If anyone does a righteous deed, it endures to the benefit of his own soul; if he does evil, it works against (his own soul). In the end will ye (all) be brought back to your Lord
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Loki wrote:Wich ONLY answer did they give?:
- "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" [7], [27]
- "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." [29]
Each Surah Chapter of the Quran summarizes events dealing with the same topic. As you read one surah to other so on and so on it becomes more informative as it summarizes the events in progression.
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[7] We also (sent) Lut: he said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?
[7] "For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."
[7] And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"
[7] But We saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who lagged behind.
[27] (We also sent) Lut (as a Messenger): behold, he said to his people, "Do ye do what is shameful though ye see (its iniquity)?
[27] "Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!"
[27] But his people gave no other answer but this: they said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"
[27] But We saved him and his family, except his wife: her We destined to be of those who lagged behind.
[29] And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you.
[29] "Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway? And practice wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth."
[29] He said: "O my Lord! help Thou me against people who do mischief!"
Lot, a Prophet of Allah, did not warn his people one time but multiple of times in which his people responded to his warnings. For every time Lut admonished his people they gave a response at that particular time of his admonishment. If the reader pays attention to Lots words they vary in warning with more stringency with progressiveness.
In Arabic Lut said to his people in 7:80-81
Ata’toon-al’faaHishata maa sabaqakum bihaa min aHadim-min-al-‘aalaameena innakum lata’ toonar-rijaala shahwatam-min doonis-saa’a bal antum Qawmum-musrifoon
In Arabic Lut’s people responded in 7:82
Akhri joohum-min Qaryatikum innahum unaasuy-yataTah’haroon
In Arabic Lut said to his people in 27:54-55
Ata’toon-al’faaHishata wa antum tubsiroona a’innakum lata’toonar-rijaala shahwatam-min doonis-saa’a bal antum Qawmun tajhaloon
In Arabic Lut’s people responded in 27:56
Akhrijoo aala lootim-min Qaryatikum innahum unaasuy-yataTah’haroon
In Arabic Lut said to his people in 29:28-29
Innakum lata’toon-al’faaHishata maa sabaQakum bimaa min aHadim-min-al-‘aalaameena a’innakum lata’toonar-rijaala wa taQTa-‘uoonas-sabeela wa ta’toona fee naadeekum-ul’munkar
In Arabic Lut’s people responded in 29:29
a’tinaa bi ‘adhaab-illlaahi in kunta minas-saadiqeeen
The wording in Luts admonishment to his people starts to vary in which his people responses starts to vary according to and then the final admonishment is more stringent in which his people final ask for him to bring proof, in which Lut says to Allah:
My Lord help me against the people of perversion 29:30
After this request,
which is not mentioned in any other surahs, his Lord answered his prays and sent messengers to destroy the city.
It is clear that Lot’s admonishment and his people’s responses are progressive at different time intervals before they were destroyed. Its called three strikes and they were out !
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Loki wrote:Who gets the blame for disbelief?:
- the disbeliever [6]
- Allah [10]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[6] Mocked were (many) Messengers before thee(Muhammad); but their scoffers were hemmed in by the thing that they mocked.
[6] Say (Muhammad): "Travel through the earth and see what was the end of those who rejected Truth
[6] Say(Muhammad): "To whom belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth?" Say(Muhammad): "To Allah. He hath inscribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy. That He will gather you together for the Day of Judgment, there is no doubt whatever. It is they who have lost their own souls that will not believe
[6] To Him belongeth all that dwelleth (or lurketh) in the Night and the Day. For He is the One Who heareth and knoweth all things."
[10] If it had been thy Lord's Will, they would all have believed, all who are on earth! Wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe
[10] No soul can believe, except by the Will of Allah, and He will place Doubt on those who will not understand(‘aql)
In Arabic “bi’idhnillah” ~ by Allah’s permission or will” The prefix “b(i)” is the preposition showing the possessive case. “idhni” means permission, will, authority that is given to exercise an act :
idhn ~ signifying Permission; leave; or concession of liberty, to do a thing; and sometimes command: and likewise will; as in the phrase bi’idhnillah ~ by the will of God: or, accord. To El-Harallee, the withdrawal, or removal, of prevention or prohibition, and the giving of power or ability, in respect of being and creation; or. Accord. To Ibn-El-Kemal, the rescission of prohibition, and concession of freedom of action, to him who has been prophibited by law: or, accord. To Er-Raghib, the notification of the allowance or permission of a thing, and of indulgence in respect of it;…..or, as explained in the Ksh, facilitation; an explanation founded upon the opinion that the actions of men are by their own effective power, but facilitated by God; and in this sense, Esh-Shihab regards it as a metaphor, or a non-metaphorical trope:…..
Edward Lane’s Lexicon of Classical Arabic
‘aql ~ signifies also Intelligience, understanding, intellect, mind, reason, or knowledge; or knowledge of the qualities of things, of their goodness and their badness, and their perfectness and their defectiveness; or the knowledge of the better of the two good things, and of the worse of two bad things, or of affairs absolutely; or a faculty whereby is the discrimination between the bad and the good;…..
Edward Lane’s Lexicon of Classical Arabic
Allah willed for a human being to choose between right and wrong whom was gifted with free will. The will to believe or not to believe is all by Allah’s permission [bi’idhnillah] and those whom do not exercise there faculty of “aql” to determine right and wrong, believe and unbelief Allah will place upon such a person doubt which is the recompense of his/her faith and deeds.
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Loki wrote:Allah isn't sure who gets salvation:
- Salvation is for Jews, Christians, and Sabaeans [5]
- Salavation is Only for Muslims [3]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[5] Those who believe (in the Qur-an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians - any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness - on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
[3] Do they seek for other than the religion of Allah? While all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling, bowed to His Will (accepted Islam), and to Him shall they all be brought back.
[3] Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Musa, 'Isa, and the Prophets, from their Lord: we make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."
[3] If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).
In 5:69 the verb tense is not correct. In the first part “Those who believe” from the Arabic “innalladheena aaminuu” the verb tense is correct “aaminuu” ~ believes or believeth is in the imperfect tense identifying the believing Muslims of Muhammad’s time, and those to come, when the revelation was revealed
In the phrase “who believe in Allah….” Referring to the Jews, Christians, and Sabeans the tense here is wrong. The Arabic in which it was translated from is “man aamina billaah” [who believe in Allah] the tense “aamina” translated as “believe” in the imperfect tense is wrong. The tense of “aamina” is in the perfect tense referring to those Jews, Christian and Sabeans before our Prophet i.e. “..who believed in Allah etc..”
aamina ~ is originally a’amana; the second hamza being softened meaning He rendered him secure, or safe; he rendered him secure, or free from fear…..meaning He believed it or in it, namely a thing and “aamina billah” He believed in God….
Edward Lane’s Lexicon of Classical Arabic
This is what this verse means. Which does not apply to Christians and Jews after this revealed to our Prophet.
As for 3:83 we Muslims believe that all the Prophets of Allah before Muhammd from Adam etc Noah etc Abraham etc Lot etc David etc Solomon etc to Jesus and John the Baptist were all Muslims and their religion was Islam originally before they changed it to a name ascribed to person, place, or thing they follow.
The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Nuh - that which We have sent by inspiration to thee (Muhammad) - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and 'Jesus: namely, that ye should remain steadfast in Religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). [42]
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Death repentance is a impossible possibility:
- Pharaoh repented at the site of death and was saved [10:90-92]
- Alltough noone can be saved this way [4]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[10] We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Fir'aun and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam)."
[10] (It was said to him
"Ah now! but a little while before, wast thou in rebellion! and thou didst mischief (and violence)!
[10] "This day shall We save thee in thy body, that thou mayest be a Sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"
[4] Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting faith; for them have we prepared a punishment most grievous.
In 10:90-91 mentions nothing of Pharaoh (Firaun) being forgiven. He repented as he saw his own life coming to an end in which he was made as an example for humanity if they try to fight against Allah as his body was saved as promised in the Quran which is now in the Cairo Museum who’s name was Merneptah, Ramses the II 13th son whom succeeded him.
[11] Unto Fir'aun and his Chiefs: but they followed the command of Fir'aun, and the command of Fir'aun was no right (guide).
[11] He (Pharaoh) will go before his people on the Day of Judgment, and lead them into the Fire (as cattle are led to water): but woeful indeed will be the place to which they are led!
[11] And they are followed by a curse in this (life) and on the Day of Judgment: and woeful is the gift which shall be given (unto them)!
[40] Then Allah saved him (Moses) from (every) ill that they plotted (against him), but the brunt of the Penalty encompassed on all sides the People of Fir'aun.
[40] In front of the Fire will they be brought, morning and evening: and (the Sentence will be) on the Day that Judgment will be established: "Cast ye the People of Fir'aun into the severest Penalty!"
[28] So We seized him (Pharaoh) and his hosts, and We flung them into the sea: now behold what was the End of those who did wrong!
[28] And We made them (but) leaders inviting to the Fire; and on the Day of Judgment no help shall they find.
[28] In this world We made a Curse to follow them: and on the Day of Judgment they will be among the loathed (and despised).
The Quran makes it clear that Phoraoh was not forgiven as he will lead his people into the Hell Fire on the Day of Judgment.
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Some angels missing:
- Many angels appeared to marry [3], [3]
- Only one angel appeared to marry [19]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[3] and when the angels said: "O Maryam! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee, chosen thee above the women of all nations.
[3] "O Maryam! worship thy Lord devoutly; prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."
[3] "This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Prophet!) by inspiration: thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Maryam: nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).
[3] and when the angels said: "O Maryam! Allah giveth Thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Al-Masih 'Isa. The son of Maryam, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;
[19] She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Spirit, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
[19] She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."
[19] He said: "Nay, I am only a Messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son."
If everyone noticed it was Allah’s spirit and the Angels that gave her glad tiding of her blessed son to be born in which the event is a progressive summarization. 3:42-45 does not mention when this was said by the Angels. 19:17-19 makes it clear that Maryam first received the glad tidings of her son from Allah’s Rooh, a messenger, the Arabic does not mention angel.
The Problem:
It is obvious the critic is using Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s translation to claim there are contradictions in the Quran. We will like to clarify the errors in the translation that are misleading.
In 3:42,45 Yusuf Ali rendered the Arabic “wa idh” as “Behold!”. The Arabic has no such meaning of expression. “wa idh” that begins 3:42,45 means “and when” denoting an unspecified time period in the past .
Also in 19:17 Yusuf Ali translated the Arabic Phrase “fa’arsalnaa ilayhaa rooHanaa” as “then We sent to her Our angel”. This is wrong. There is no word in that phrase for “Angel” in the Arabic. The proper meaning is “and then We sent to her our Spirit” as the Arabic word “RooH in the Arabic text means “spirit” and not “angel” which is “Mal’ak or Malak” in Arabic which is singular of “Malaaa’ikah” plural.
Is the Spirit accompanied by Angles when they go on errands? Lets here what the Quran says:
[70]The angels and the spirit ascend to him (Allah) in a day which is measured as fifty thousand years
[78] the day that the Spirit and the angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (Allah) Most Gracious, and he will say what is right.
[97] We have indeed revealed this (Message) in the Night of Power:
[97] and what will explain to thee what the Night of Power is?
[97] The Night of Power is better than a thousand months.
[97] Therein come down the angels and the Spirit by Allah's permission, on every errand:
[97] Peace!... This until the rise of Morn! errand
It is also clear that the Spirit is accompanied by Angels on their errands. Also the words given the Maryam by the Spirit are not the same words the angels pronounced to her. The announcement by the Angels to Maryam came after the announcement of the Spirit to her in progression.
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding.
Loki wrote:What's a man really made of?:
- A blood clot [96:1-2]
- water [21], [24], [25]
- clay [15]
- dust [3], [30], [35]
- or nothing? [19]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
Proclaim in the name of your Lord who created,
He created man(male and female) from ‘alaq
Proclaim as your Lord is the most bountiful,
He taught with Pen,
He taught man (male and female) what they knew not 96:1-5
‘alaq the original meaning of the word is “a clinger or something that clings” the later term “blood like clot” is a modern medical term. The original meaning to what was understood in the time of our Prophet and will be used here.
[21] Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from maa’a every living thing. Will they not then believe?
[24] And Allah has created every animal from maa’a: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills: for verily Allah has power over all things
[25] It is He Who has created the human being from maa’a: then has He established relationships of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has power (over all things).
maa’a means water, liquid, fluid.
[15] We created man (male and female) from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
[3] The similitude of 'Isa before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him (Adam) from dust, then said to him "Be": and then he became.
[3] Among His Signs is this, that He created you from dust; and then, behold, ye are men scattered (far and wide)!
[35] And Allah did create you from dust; then from a sperm-drop; then He made you in pairs. And no female conceives, or lays down (her load), but with His knowledge. Nor is a man long-lived granted length of days, nor is a part cut off from his life, but is in a Decree (ordained). All this is easy for Allah.
[19] But does not man call to mind that We created him from before while he was nothing?
We gather from above that man is created from the following
1) Nothing (lam yaku shayan)
2) Dust (turaab)
3) Water/Liquid/Fluid (maa’a)
4) Mud (Teen)
5) Dried clinking clay like pottery (SalSal)
6) Sperm (Nutfah)
7) A thing that clings (‘alaq)
Critics call this a contradiction. So when science says we are created from protoplasm, minerals, XY Chromosomes, sperm, and ovum is this a contradiction? The Quran, the word of Alllaah, mentions the evolutionary origin of the creation of man .
Before creation there was nothing as there was no dust or water. Allah created dust and water and from these two elements he combined them to make mud, in which the mud was molded like clay in the form of a human being as he desired. The Clay was furnished i.e. heated until it was dried like pottery which made a clinking sound. Allah then blew into the SalSal of his Spirit and gave the being called Man life. From the Soul of the Man Allah created the soul of his wife and infused it into another SalSal he created with that soul and spirit from him self. From these two he created more human beings with a sperm and an ovum which became a thing that clings to the womb of its mother and thus began the reproduction of the human race.
Thus is the evolutionary origin of the creation of man as taught in the Quran.
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding.
Loki wrote:Angels cannot disobey Allah:
- All are commanded [16:49-50]
- Not all are commanded [2]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[16] And to Allah doth obeisance all that is in the heavens and on earth, whether moving (living) creatures or the angels: for none are arrogant (before their Lord).
[16] They all revere their Lord, high above them, and they do all that they are commanded.
[2] And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam:" and they bowed down: not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: he was of those who reject Faith.
The Critic assumes that 2:34 implies that Iblis was an Angel, jumping to conclusion without first understanding the conecpt of Angles as taught in the Quran. In Surah 7 the topic gets a little bit more informative.
[11] It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels bow down to Adam, and they bowed down; not so Iblis; he refused to be of those who bow down.
[12] (Allah) said: "What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."
[13] (Allah) said: "Get thee down from it: it is not for thee to be arrogant in it: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."
[14] He said: "Give me respite till the day they are raised up."
[15] (Allah) said: "Be thou amongst those who have respite."
[16] He said: "Because Thou hast thrown me out of the Way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on Thy Straight Way:
[17] "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: nor wilt Thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for Thy mercies)."
[18] (Allah) said: "Get out from it, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee, Hell will I fill with you all.
[19] "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."
[20] Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, in order to reveal to them their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live forever."
[21] And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.
[22] So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them, and they began to sew together the leaves of the Garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: "Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"
[23] They said: "Our Lord! we have wronged our own souls: if Thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."
[24] (Allah) said: "Get ye all down, with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood for a time."
[25] He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."
If the reader closely examined the context, Iblis was expelled and disgraced from something and was told to get out and down from that which he was in. It is obviously it was not heaven or a place being spoken of as he was not thrown out heaven yet until after he mislead Adam.
Before this time, he was still in heaven tempting Adam after his expulsion, after which they all were finally decreed to come down to the Earth to stay for a time.
Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam": they bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? and they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers! [15]
The Quran teaches us that Iblis was by nature a Jinn which is a race of beings, but was indirectly referred to as an Angel. Ibliss (shaytaanirrajeem) being a Jinn which are created from fire had the status of an Angel in which he was expelled from which informs us that he was not an Angel by nature which are created from noor ~ light. Allah had favored him and gave him an elevated position.
Let us reflect back to the Spirit mentioned from before. The Spirit is always mentioned with the Angels “… the Spirit and the Angels…” whom is never called directly an Angel, but a Messenger, Truthful Spirit or the Holy Spirit which are titles given to Gabriel in the Quran. Gabriel himself is traditionally known as an Angel who is a RooH ~ Spirit while the actual Angels are created from Noor ~ Light. Gabriel as taught in the Quran is by nature a Rooh whom is an Angel by status.
Gabriel, a Rooh, and Iblis, a Jinn, are never called directly in the Quran an Angel but had or has the status of.
We didn’t even need to mention this for as much that Surah 16:49,50 verb tense is imperfect, which does not reflect the past but the present and future actions at and from the time it was revealed whereas Iblis (shaytaanirrajeem) no longer had the status of an angel.
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding.
Loki wrote:Heaven and earth? wich was created first?:
- First earth and then heaven [2]
- heaven and after that earth [79:27-30]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[2] It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; then He turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments. And of all things He hath perfect knowledge.
[79] What! Are ye the more difficult to create or the heaven (above)? (Allah) hath constructed it:
[79] On high hath He raised its canopy, and He hath given it order and perfection.
[79] Its night doth He endow with darkness, and its splendour doth He bring out (with light).
[79] And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
This is something that shouldn’t even be worth explaining seeing that someone is dyslexic. The earth was formed first before its firmament, which is called a canopy, was created. Obviously someone couldn’t distinguish of when the Quran is speaking about the firmament i.e. canopy of the Earth apart from the firmament beyond the Earth’s canopy. In the Quran when the Earth is mentioned with the firmament it is speaking of the firmament of the Earth and not the firmaments beyond its own firmament i.e.space and the universes.
Surah 79:30 does not mention anything of the “creation” of the Earth after the canopy was constructed, rather, its speaks about the expansion of the Earth not its creation.
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Loki wrote:Where is Allah and his throne?:
- Allah is nearer than the jugular vein [50]
- but he is also on the throne [57]
- which is upon the water [11]
- and at the same time so far away, that it takes between 1,000 and 50,000 years to reach him [32:5, 70:4].
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[50] It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein.
[57] He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of authority), He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
[11] He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the Waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death," the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"
[32]He regulates the command from the heavens to the earth and then it (The Command) ascends to him in a day that is measured as a thousand years of what is your reckoning
[70]..The angels and the spirit ascend to him (Allah) in a day which is measured as fifty thousand years
We wood like to mention to our readers that the critic has all of a sudden become physical minded when trying to understand the divine existence of Allah in the Quran. Would he do this to his own book? No. In the Quran the first thing that is taught is that we cannot grasp or conceive Allah and that nothing is like him. These are the rules in the Quran concerning Allah’s existence.
[6]No vision can grasp Him. But His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things.
The above is rule number one.
[112] And there is not one thing comparable to Him
The above is rule number two
[3]He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are mutashaabihaat. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is mutashaabihaat. Seeking discord and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its true meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding
What is
Mutashaabihaat ? The following is given from the Edward Lane Arabic Lexicon of Classical Arabic :
Mutashaabihaat ~ in the Kur 3:5 means Verses that are equivocal, or ambiguous; i.e. susceptible of different interpretations: or verses unintelligible; such as the commencements of many chapters: ot the mutashaabih in the Kur is that of which the meaning is not to be learned from its words; and this is of the two sorts; one is that of which the meaning is known by referring it to what is termed muHkam; and the other is that of which the knowledge of its real meaning is not attainable in any way: or it means what is not understood without repeated consideration.
Edward Lane Arabic Lexicon of Classical Arabic.
Allah says in 50:16 that He is closer to us than our own juggler vain. This is beyond grasping, our finite minds cannot even fathom the idea of something being closer to us than out own juggler vain that is the life cord in our body.
In 57:4 the Arabic for “and is moreover firmly established on the Throne” thumma-stawaa ‘alaa-al-‘arsh which is mutashaabihaat. Where as Edward Lane sums up in his Lexicon about the use of the word “
istawaa” when applied to Allah
Thumma-stawaa ilaas-samaaa’i is metaphorical said of God, in the Kur 2:27 and 41:10; meaing :: Then He directed himself by his will to the heaven or elevated regions, or upwards, or to the heavenly bodies…
Edward Lane Arabic Lexicon of Classical Arabic
The usage of thumma-stawaa when applied to Allah is solely metaphorical but yet we have critics trying to interpret such a statement as being literal much physically to his own understand of the physical reality.
thumma-stawaa alaa-al-‘arsh is mutashaabihaat which can mean “He stood over the throne, or He established the throne, or He established himself upon the throne, or He is established upon the throne” in which case all are ambiguous meanings that are metaphorical.
In 11:7 it says His throne “
WAS” not “
IS” over “al’maa’a” ~ The Water, Liquid, Fluid neither does it say the al’maa’a was on the Earth. When compared with another verse from the Quran that explains the throne’s reality we find the following:
[2]Allah! There is no god but He, the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
The throne
WAS over the water/ liquid / fluid which is NOW over the heavens and the Earth. Also Allah says the Heavens and the Earth was together.
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe 21:30.
Allah says the Earth, which is mass, and the heavens, which are gasses, was together at one time. Scientifically speaking, the only way for mass and gases to be together is in ab etremely hot liquid form. It was thus when Allah’s throne was over al’maa’a ~ The Liquid, properly speaking, is when all creation was in a liquid form.
- and at the same time so far away, that it takes between 1,000 and 50,000 years to reach him [32:5, 70:4].
If everyone paid attention closely it was not too long ago our critic claimed in the beginning these verses contradicted each other. But now he recognizes them as space, time, and distance co ordinations and not as a contradiction any more. The critic is still physical minded here and still tries to explain verses that are beyond grasping and are nonphysical with a carnal mind. Lets help him out:
[2]To Allah belong the East and the West: whithersoever ye turn, there is Allah's countenance. For Allah is All-Embracing, All-Knowing.
[55] All that is on earth will perish:
[55] But will abide (forever) the countenance of thy Lord, Full of Majesty, Bounty and Honour
[57] He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Hidden: and He has full knowledge of all things.
[57] He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of authority), He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
These are the things we have collected from the Quran about Allah’s presents.
1) His countenance is in front of us wherever we turn
2) All will perish on earth except his countenance
3) He is always with us, sees us, and surrounds us
4) He is closer to us that our own juggler vain
5) He is hidden
6) We are far from him but he is near to us
These statements tell us that Allah is beyond our very own physical reality and they are merely imposable to grasp as they are speaking of a reality beyond our own.
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Loki wrote:Inquiry in paradise?:
-"neither will they question one another" [23]
- but nevertheless they will be "engaging in mutual inquiry" [52]
- "and they will ... question one another" [37].
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[23] No son did Allah beget, nor is there any god along with Him: (if there were many gods), behold, each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have Lorded it over others! Glory to Allah! (He is free) from the (sort of) things they attribute to Him!
[23] He knows what is hidden and what is open; too high is He for the partners they attribute to Him!
[23] Say: "O my Lord! if Thou wilt show me (in my lifetime) that which they are warned against,
[23] "Then, O my Lord! put me not amongst the people who do wrong!"
[23] And We are certainly able to show thee (in fulfilment) that against which they are warned.
[23] Repel evil with that which is best: We are well-acquainted with the things they say.
[23] And say: "O my Lord! I seek refuge with Thee from the suggestions of the Evil Ones;
[23] "And I seek refuge with Thee, O my Lord! lest they should come near me."
[23] (In Falsehood will they be) until, when death comes to one of them, he says: "O my Lord! send me back (to life),
[23] "In order that I may work righteousness in the things I neglected" - "By no means! It is but a word he says." - Before them is a Partition till the Day they are raised up.
[23] Then when the Trumpet is blown, there will be no more relationships between them that day, nor will one ask after another
[52] And those who believe and whose families follow them in Faith, to them shall We join their families: nor shall We deprive them (of the fruit) of aught of their works: (Yet) is each individual in pledge for his deeds.
[52] And We shall bestow on them, of fruit and meat, anything they shall desire.
[52] They shall there exchange, one with another, a (loving) cup free of frivolity, free of all taint of ill.
[52] Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, youths (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded.
[52] They will advance to each other, engaging in mutual enquiry.
[52] They will say: "Aforetime, we were not without fear for the sake of our people.
If every one noticed Surah 23 in the context of verse 101 is not speaking about the people of paradise. It is the people of the hell fire that shall not question one another.
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Loki wrote:Can slander of chaste women be forgiven?:
- Yes [24]
- No [24]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[24] And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, (to support their allegations), flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;
[24] Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
[24] Those who slander chaste women, indiscreet but believing, are cursed in this life and in the Hereafter: for them is a grievous Penalty,
[24] On the Day when their tongues, their hands, and their feet will bear witness against them as to their actions.
If the slanderer repents and amends he will be forgiven. Surah 24:4-5 in context is referring to those who repent and amend after their wrong they are forgiven. Surah 24:23-24 makes no mention of those who repent and amend. The absents of this refers to those who do not repent or amend for their wrong they will be cursed in the life and will be punished in the hereafter.
Loki wrote:There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Will christians enter paradise?:
- Yes [5]
- No [3]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[5] Those who believe (in the Qur-an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians - any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness - on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
This verse was already explained from before.
H2O wrote:In 5:69 the verb tense is not correct. In the first part “Those who believe” from the Arabic “innalladheena aaminuu” the verb tense is correct “aaminuu” ~ believes or believeth is in the imperfect tense identifying the believing Muslims of Muhammad’s time when the revelation was revealed
In the phrase “who believe in Allah….” Referring to the Jews, Christians, and Sabeans the tense here is wrong. The Arabic in which it was translated from is “man aamina billaah” [who believe in Allah] the tense “aamina” translated as “believe” in the imperfect tense is wrong. The tense of “aamina” is in the perfect tense referring to those Jews, Christian and Sabeans before our Prophet i.e. “..who believed in Allah etc..”
aamina ~ is originally a’amana; the second hamza being softened meaning He rendered him secure, or safe; he rendered him secure, or free from fear…..meaning He believed it or in it, namely a thing and “aamina billah” He believed in God….
Edward Lane’s Lexicon of Classical Arabic
This is what this verse means. Which does not apply to Christians and Jews after this revealed to our Prophet.
It seems our critic has ran out of bullets and has now resorted in using empty shells:
[3] Do they seek for other than the religion of Allah? While all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling, bowed to His Will (accepted Islam), and to Him shall they all be brought back.
[3] Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Musa, 'Isa, and the Prophets, from their Lord: we make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."
[3] If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good)
This was also already explained from before
H2O wrote:As for 3:83 we Muslims believe that all the Prophets of Allah before Muhammd from Adam etc Noah etc Abraham etc Lot etc David etc Solomon etc to Jesus and John the Baptist were all Muslims and their religion was Islam originally before they changed it to a name ascribed to person, place, or thing they follow.
The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Nuh - that which We have sent by inspiration to thee (Muhammad) - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and 'Jesus: namely, that ye should remain steadfast in Religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). [42]
The Quran teaches the same religion of salvation he revealed to us is the same religion that was revealed to Moses and Jesus whose followers became known as Jews and Christians.
There is no contradiction, but a misunderstanding
Loki wrote:From among all nations or from Abraham's seed?:
- all prophets came from Abraham's seed. [29]
- Allah raised messengers from among every people. [16]
Let’s take a look at what these verses say:
[29] And we gave (Ibrahim) Ishaq and Ya'qub, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation, and We granted him his reward in this life; and he was in the Hereafter (of the company) of the Righteous.
[16] By Allah, We (also) sent Messengers to nations before thee(Muhammad): but Satan made, (to the wicked), their own acts seem alluring: he is also their patron today, but they shall have a most grievous penalty.
First of all, Surah 29:27 makes no mention that ALL PROPHETS are descendants of Abraham. Also Surah 16:63 is speaking about Prophetic Messengers. In Islam, as taught in the Quran, all Prophets were not Messengers. Some were Prophetic Messengers and others were just merely prophets.