Christian/Muslim ThreadsUnconditional Love :: Re: Unconditional LoveYou have all the time to say what you think this is not a chat room but a forum and debates are ABOUT correcting fallacies and discarding possible 'junk' points. The only reason why you have put your time (wich you obviously have) in making a new topic instead of replying to the debates, is because you were unable to continue the disccusion because you were cornered or scared you were gonna get cornered... stopping a debate is not ending in your advantage especially when you are on the losing side. That is what i see as well! Tabari IX:69 “Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us.” Qur’an 4:168 “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.” I'm sure I am not a legimate source, but i sincely doubt the first earliest sources about Islam (inc. Quran/Hadith) are not legimate... and i only quote those! Whatever the deeper reasons may be for denying the accusations against Islam, enlighten us! that we can deny those sources with you! share us your ultimate truth! and why isn't unconditional love an attribute of Islam? tell me, is it because it's history and it's scriptures don't teach that!? And acctually there are millions and billions of christians who live and lived a peacefull and loving life, even i try and take up that path, and i know hundreds of others christians in my congregations and church communities who wouldn't dare touching a fly. You are only trying to smere christianity by generalizing some events in history with all of us. We christians don't defend the sins of other christians... Unconditional love IS directed to God himself. But unconditional love is what we persue, even when we know we cannot be it because we sin daily. unconditional love is our Idealism. And why can we not forgive our enemies? I do not like opression either, but i like killing even less (look at the insurgents in Iraq)... like i said somewhere before... i'd rather be a good man in a bad world, then a bad man in a bad world and by this making it even worse. And i have more respect for people like Aung San Sui Kyu, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Mathama Gandhi and the Dalai Lama then for Arafat's blood drenched hands. What is injustice to your religion? will you be hypocrits and judge wars (iraq), pedofiles (one or two western catholic priests) when your prophet did it all himself? then wouldn't you be jugding against the dirty sins of your own prophet? You would be deceiving Allah's al insan al kamil! Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.” See you do not have a image about how Just God is, when he allows a prophet to steal, rape and murder all he wants... when bad people are granted mercy into heaven amongst the pure because Allah wills it, or how good people could be sent to hell because Allah wills it... This is not justice, this God is a maffiosi. That is not what the jihad's of islam are about... he didn't rescue any people, he murdered entire ethnic groupies, and persecuted anyone who didn't want to believe . Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.” Qur’an 9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.” or pay taxes... Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.” those are quranic verses too you know, why not quote them !!! The people only saved themselves by unwillingly converting to this madman's self made religion. We can forgive injustice, but we cannot be indifferent for injustice, if it occurs and we have to power to make peace, then one must make peace. If injustice is directed too me, you turn the other cheek... you bite your tongue you restrain your fist! you do not give into the provocations... in islam if you choose to fight.. God will give you a reward and if you don't God will give you a reward as well... making God not caring what you do with injustice or not. Then he surely must hate muhammed! other 'tolerant' things you didn't quote: Bukhari:V1B11N617 “I would order someone to collect firewood and another to lead prayer. Then I would burn the houses of men who did not present themselves at the compulsory prayer and prostration.” Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.” Bukhari:V4B52N260 “The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him." Qur’an 8:20 “Those who do not obey are the worst of beasts, the vilest of animals in the sight of Allah. They are deaf and dumb. Those who do not understand are senseless.” what practical guidance? are you proposing a manuel for brainwashing? Families differ from one family to another, and so do kids... i know perfect christian families and not so perfect christian families, but in that same breath you can say the same about certain muslim families and certain atheistic families. I have said this before, the quran is way to simplistic and dictorial, it excludes the entire spectrum of emotions and sees everything black and white... if a woman is with a man (or men) alone in a room you should beat her, adulatry (whip or stone her), thievery (cut of hands), etc... it isn't open for mercyfull conditions... western laws (wich are based upon christian values) are! if a man is stealing a bread because his family is starving he will be granted lesser or even no charges then a man who is stealing a car radio to sell on the black market. Yet if those happend in a muslim country both the men would of be armless by now. Christian disagreeances in the family was prophecied by Christ. That was undeniably gonna happen. And we should take peace with that, that this won't go away. Luke 19:53 "For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.” First time Islam ever challenged Christianity was with a war provoced by one it's four earlyest caliphs. And you're gonna tell me they came to bring "unconditional love" and "peace for all" when they were slitting christian throats all along the way. |
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