Aburaees wrote:The best that we can say is that the Prophets didn't know about the Trinity
Abraham, Noah, Moses and David worshipped Yahweh-Elohim and so do Christians today.
Abdullah wrote:THANK YOU FOR ADMITTING THAT THE PROPHETS DIDNT KNOW, this just proves my point that THe nature of God wasnt clearly knwon AFTER jesus (PBUH), i remind you that Jesus did not come to abolish the old laws, and Trinity is a new one, and Also now you understand why jews dont believe in him, because the prophets didnt believe or Knew the trinity! also i disagree, they worshipped the ONE TRUE LORD, Not Jesus (PBUH), read numbers 23:19
My pleasure, I've been down this pathe before, that's how I became Muslim the first time.
I do understand why the Jews reject the Trinity, but I don't understand why they rejected 'Isa bin Maryam, who as you say would never have preached Trinity to them.
Aburaees wrote:Biblically speaking, Abraham never taught the resurrection and neither did Moses. But that doesn't mean that the resurrection isn't true.
Abdullah wrote:Thank you for admitting to what i was trying to point out, yes it does mean the resurrection isnt true, one reason, the first believe christians (Judeo Christians) never believed in it, if you read the history of the TRUE christians, which were the first ones, they were following the right path
I was talking about the resurrection of the dead on Judgement day.
Aburaees wrote:Biblically speaking, Abraham knew God by the name El-Shaddai and he never knew him by the names Yahweh or Eheyah Asher Eheyah. But this doesn't mean that that Yahweh is an incorrect name for God.
Abdullah wrote:Im assuming when u say Yahweh, you dont mean Jesus,
You assume correctly. As far as Moses' people are concerned Yahweh and Eyah are
"New Names", they never knew this before. But they didn't reject him on account of being something new as the miracles performed through Moses confirmed his truthfullness.
Aburaees wrote:So if they didn't know about the Trinity, it doesn't mean that it isn't true.
Abdullah wrote:IF they didnt know about Trinity, then how can you believe in it
what proof can you bring to the followers of prophets before Jesus (PBUT), that trinity is true?
I'm still trying to work that one out
for myself.
Aburaees wrote:What matters is whether God revealed the Trinity. What matters is whether Jesus taught the Trinity. What matters is whether the Trinity can be discerned from the Word of God.
Abdullah wrote:No it doesnt, he never revealed trinity, show me where in the bible he has revealed it, and i dont want verses talking about each Distict Godhead, i want all 3 being talking about how they are godly
There are no such verses. All we have are verses that may
imply the Trinity, but I'm still trying to work that one out for myself.
Aburaees wrote:As for the analogies you quoted, admittedly they aren't perfect but what you said concerning the water analogy is incorrect
Abdullah wrote:ill go into detail with the water theory, and thanks for not saying the other theorys that have been rebuttaled are wrong
Aburaees wrote:Have you ever heard of the "Triple Point" of water? It's well known to Physicists that at the right temperature and pressure water can exist in all three forms simultaneously. That is when the temperature is "x degrees" and the pressure is "y pascals", water is solid liquid and gas at the same time.
Abdullah wrote:If you took a closer look at the water theory is that the states FLUCTUATE between each other, not all three molecules would be equally distributed. So you are telling me that the Father fluctuates between the stages of HP and Jesus? not only that But you forgot one important factor to water, Liquid,Solid and Gas are DIFFERENT STATES of the SAME WATER, IN TRINITY, Each Godhead is DISTINCT, and to say so to compare it to the Triple Point theory is another flaw,
Abdullah wrote:you are telling me that Jesus, HP and the Father have to be at a certain temperature, pressure and Temp to exist at once?
That part was really funny.
Aburaees wrote:Because it wasn't revealed to them.
Abdullah wrote:Again i ask you, why not? The main reason why prophets were sent down was to do good and Belief in ONE GOD, again my point has been established, before Jesus, it was only belief in ONE GOD (Not trinity) while AFTER jesus came ((well after 100 years after jesus trinity belief came to play) Can you see why Islam had to come? If people just thought logically and with a open mind, they would see how Trinity is a man-made concept, and was never preached by God's Prophets. Jews look up to Moses the most, and yet you expect them to leave what moses preached for Jesus (PBUH)? (i refer to the corrupted Version
)
Suppose Jesus didn't teach anything about him being God, what could he possibly have said that would have angered the Jews to the point of trying to have him killed?
Aburaees wrote:And what do you think of the idea that Jeus proceeded from God as Eve proceeded from Adam?
Abdullah wrote:Well i think its blasphemy that Man comes from God, the teachings of Torah, Gospel and Qur'an negate that teaching, Eve proceeded from Adam is something we can all agree on. You people take the bible to literally, YOu should know by now how to tell if God is using a Figure of Speech. and you people should study the Language of which the bible is original from so you can understand what im talking about.
Is it blasphemy that "Spirit" comes from God? Wasn't Jesus a Spirit
from Allah?
Aburaees wrote:And what do you think of the idea that the Holy-Spirit might be better understood as "God's Active Force", and not a sperate person but a part of God's person?
Abdullah wrote:More blasphemy, again, God never preached being Part of something, Just take a look at what you said on prophets not knowing the trinity
You misunderstood me, I didn't say God was part of something. I asked you whether it's possible, that the Holy-Spirit as mentioned in the Bible, was one of God's attributes. A force of his own that was at his command.
.