Loki wrote:
first religiously speaking this is all in contradiction with christian theology and is nowhere supported by christians and is condemned to this very day, when will the muslims condemn the slayings and conquering of muhammed and it's caliphs?
Yes, war in iraq is not supported by evangelic leaders at all. And those convicted of murder in Rwanda are not Christian priests and nuns. They all really seem to be repentful for what had taken place in history.
that is not autonomous, and on top of that is the christian world much bigger then a few protestant churches in the US, and if i'm not mistaken then alot of Iman's in that same US (and bigger world) supported that war as well.
and those Christian nuns will be punished by secular Christian nations, Christianity or the christian west (however you wanna call it) doesn't tolerate injustice. When will you see muslims being convicted in their own countries for killing apostates and unbelievers? i would love seeing that happen... but as long as the islamic states are doing the persections themselves i could wait a load of lifetimes for that.
Genocide in Istanbul and Jerusalem took place during crudades. Western Romans murdered Eastern Romans in Istanbul and you know the extent of violance in Jerusalem.
There was a continuous hostility between Muslims in North Africa and their neigbours accross the strait. Nothing surprising. You should be happy. Muslims brought some civilization to medieval europe.
First how did the muslims get into Istanbul? wich large population did they have to kill in order to rule their? Why don't you judge the muslims first?
and secondly who started the crusades you think?
"The trigger for the First Crusade was Emperor Alexius I's appeal to Pope Urban II for mercenaries
to help him resist Muslim advances into territory of the Byzantine Empire...." --
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
muslims were conquering us, not we you!
and Muslims brought civilization???? that's a new! What might that be? except for the revival of neo-aristotalism by Averroës (who the muslims persecuted instead of exalted, because it's even debatable if he was a muslim) Islam has brought us nothing but war. Or do you mean the numeric alphabet? wich is not islamic but arabic, and wich we could of adapted without the religion slaying thousands of innocent people merely for the extortion of jizya or the forced conversion too islam in order to create an empire.
And I salute you for supporting the colonization. Hail Captain Cook, Hail Commander Cortes!
yeah, thought you were that superficial to reffer to the popular examples on why colonisation is a bad thing, well you forgot to mention the Belgian Congo and the British concentration camps... now looking past that, you'd see that economically they revived entire nations, and that it wasn't always mayhem and chaos in colonized countries, some got a better future from it then the one they had before and some like Hong Kong, Rwanda and Congo look back at times when their country was better of with the colonisation (in case of Congo i mean belgian state governed colonisation, not the one by Albert II).
That wasn't aburaees question was it, he asked if they are in hell now?
are you dodging?
Be polite. God will judge between them. We are not to take a part in this political struggle and prefer one to other. (Yet, shia sect did. They should've not.)
But are you saying that Allah's laws aren't clear in the Quran? Or do you really think that Allah will play favourites with them? In my opinion being a just God and they broke the law, then they should diserve the punishment prescribed for it... that being hell fire...
if only they had a savior
yeah the jizah tax, the one that makes you secondary citizens in your own country, when they conquered it, plus you know what they did too those that refused to pay it?
Let me tell you something. Muslims fight when there's aggression and hostility toward themselves. When they make a treaty with goodness they are loyal to it. But Muslims also fight for one more thing. Werever there's oppression Muslims should help the oppressed, even when there's no immediate hostility toward the Muslims. Because Muslims are caliphs of Allah and they should work to eliminate injustice and restore order. The religion of the oppressed is not important.
have you acctually read all these??? and if you did are you by this statement saying that the caliphs weren't muslims?
"The general Khalid went with a force of 10,000 into Iraq. Khalid gave the people of Hira a choice of three options that became the standard policy of the Muslim conquerors - either accept Islam, agree to pay the jizya tribute, or fight."
chosing between forced conversion, extortion or death... yeah islam was a real blessing for those countries
- Persia: Khalid sent a letter to the Persians warning them if they did not become Muslims or pay protection, he would come upon them with men who love death as much as they love life or wine.
- Persia: Caliph 'Umar appointed Nu'man to replace Sa'd at Kufa; but he was killed during the Muslims' "victory of victories" at Nihavand which was reported to have killed 100,000 Persians and finally defeated the Sassanian empire in 641. The Persian aristocracy had over-taxed the people for too long. The Arabs collected less taxes, and the Muslims certainly fought with more zeal for their religion.
- Persia: NO COMPULSION: Zarathustran temples were destroyed in Azerbaijan, and Qazvin surrendered in 644. The capitulation terms of Jurjan, Tabaristan, Jil Jilan, and Azerbaijan also provided safe conduct in exchange for the jizya tax and required them to provide hospitality to traveling Muslims. Many treaties threatened severe punishments for striking or insulting a Muslim.
- Syria: Emperor Heraclius at Antioch who was defeated and beheaded when he refused to renounce Christianity for Islam.
- Syria: Damascus was besieged the fanatical Muslims defeated the larger Byzantine army, and Derar was rescued. Thousands of fleeing Greeks were killed.
- Syria: A hermit, who attracted the crowd, warned Khalid of heaven's vengeance for his having slaughtered Christians. The Muslim general replied that he was obeying God in killing unbelievers.
and if you can refute ALL these quotes mentioned on this page:
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=5302
in a peacefull context...
only then i will believe that Islam is a peacefull religion... yet so far i haven't seen any muslim who is able too.