Religious Cults & False Prophets~ Discussions and DebatesCritical Identity of BaptismAineo wrote:
Isaiah Isaiah 28:11-14
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. KJV
What does this mean?
Isaiah 28:11-13
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
The prophet takes the ki ("for") out of their mouths, and carries it on in his own way. It was quite right that their ungodliness should show itself in such a way as this, for it would meet with an appropriate punishment. Vv. 11-13. "For through men stammering in speech, and through a strange tongue, will He speak to this people. He who said to them, There is rest, give rest to weary ones, and there is refreshing! But they would not hear. Therefore the word of Jehovah becomes to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, a little here, a little there, that they may go and stumble backwards, and be wrecked to pieces, and be snared and taken." Jehovah would speak to the scoffing people of stammering tongue a language of the same kind, since He would speak to them by a people that stammered in their estimation, i.e., who talked as barbarians (cf., barbari'zein and balbutire; see Isaiah 33:19, compared with Deuteronomy 28:49).
The Assyrian Semitic had the same sound in the ear of an Israelite, as Low Saxon (a provincial dialect) in the ear of an educated German; in addition to which, it was plentifully mixed up with Iranian, and possibly also with Tatar elements. This people would practically interpret the will of Jehovah in its own patios to the despisers of the prophet. Jehovah had directed them, through His prophets, after the judgments which they had experienced with sufficient severity (Isaiah 1:5 ff.), into the true way to rest and refreshing (Jeremiah 6:16), and had exhorted them to give rest to the nation, which had suffered so much under Ahaz through the calamities of war (2 Chronicles 28), and not to drag it into another way by goading it on to rise against Assyria, or impose a new burden in addition to the tribute to Assyria by purchasing the help of Egypt. But they would not hearken ('aabuw' (OT:14) = 'aabuw (OT:14), Isaiah 30:15-16; Ges. §23, 3, Anm. 3). Their policy was a very different one from being still, or believing and waiting. And therefore the word of Jehovah, which they regarded as en endless series of trivial commands, would be turned in their case into an endless series of painful sufferings. To those who thought themselves so free, and lived so free, it would become a stone on which they would go to pieces, a net in which they would be snared, a trap in which they would be caught (compare Isaiah 8:14-15).
(from Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament: New Updated Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1996 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)
Isaiah 28:11
[With stammering lips] The word which is used here is derived from a verb laa`ag (OT:3932), which means to speak unintelligibly: especially to speak in a foreign language, or to stammer; and then to mock, deride, laugh at, scorn (compare Isaiah 33:19; Proverbs 1:26; 17:5; Psalms 2:4; 59:9; Job 22:19). Here it means in a foreign or barbarous tongue; and the sense is, that the lessons which God wished to teach would be conveyed to them through the language of foreigners-the Chaldeans. They should be removed to a distant land, and there, in hearing a strange speech, in living long among foreigners, they should learn the lesson which they refused to do when addressed by the prophets in their own land.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1997 by Biblesoft)
"...Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharicees and of the Sadducees." - Take heed and beware of the leaven of intellectual theologians (Math 16:6). How little has changed since Jesus spoke this warning.
"Then understood they how that He bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharicees and of the Sadducees[and of the intellectual theologians]". (Math 16:12)
I accept only the Divine inspired interpretation of Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:21 of the prophecy of Isaiah 28:11,12 and not the commentary of some witch-doctor, ["having not the Spirit" (Jude:19)] with a PhD in Biblical studies. And I take heed of Jude: "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost" [...praying in tongues]. (Jude:20). "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth ['builds up'] himself"(1 Cor 14:4). For when "I pray in an unknown tongue my spirit prayeth" (1 Cor 14:14).
It is worthy of mention that Isaiah linked the understanding of doctrine to the baptism of the Holy Ghost evidenced with the sign of speaking in tongues. It is the Holy Ghost that guides into all truth (John 16:13). Only those spiritually equipped and weaned off the milk are qualified to teach the bread and meat of doctrine. For the carnel man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1 Cor 2:14). Your carnel and intellectual understanding is nothing but the vomit produced by spiritual indigestion.
Aineo wrote: The Babylonian captivity fulfilled this prophecy. If you insist on applying this to the NT era then Greek was the language of diplomacy in the Roman Empire and the language used in writing the New Testament.
According to whom? Some Nicolaitane theologian? Apostle Paul applied Isaiah's prophecy to the N.T. not me. "...AND YET FOR ALL THAT WILL THEY NOT HEAR ME, SAITH THE LORD." (1 Cor 14:21).
Aineo wrote:You have also avoided the fact that the gift of the Holy Spirit can be bestowed before baptism, after baptism, required the laying on of hands is some situations, and other variables that show your basic premise is totally flawed.
If you have an issue as to why the Spirit can be bestowed before baptism, after baptism, laying on of hands or not take it up with God. If you do not like the way God does things that is between you and Him. But a word of caution: "Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker!...Shall the clay say to Him that fashioned it, What makest thou?...Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or the woman, What hast thou brought forth?" (Isaiah 45:9,10).
Aineo wrote:I notice you have refused to address the Lord’s commandment found in Matthew 28 that disciples are to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. You force an interpretation on Acts 10 to mean baptism is a commandment and then conveniently ignore the one commandment the Lord gave concerning baptism.
I have addressed this issue in earlier posts. And Brad has done an excellent and honest job of addressing the issue on this thread. Moreover, the historical record [sources already quoted and posted] clearly proves the early believers baptized in no other name but the name of Jesus. There is only one name for the titles of Math 28:19 and that name is Jesus. To baptize in the name of Jesus is to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There is nothing to debate.
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