Christian/Muslim ThreadsThe Quran: Which Version?
what is the meaning of this? Alif Laam Meem mean? Surely you believe God does things for reasons what on earth is the meaning of the above? This has nothing to do with the preservation or compilation of the koran. What does this have to do with it's compilation and preservation (Oh I see because the koran says we are it's guardians problem solved the koran has been perfectly compiled and preserved since Mohammed uttered this?<--- because the koran said so? weren't 'we' also the guardians of "the preserved tablet"? where is this preserved tablet? in heaven? you categorically deny that this tablet is in heaven, is it on earth? you said it was written on pages so yes it is on earth, where is this preserved tablet if it is preserved? you refuse to answer, like I said I expect your arguments as a muslim apologetic to be at equilibrium with all other conflicts in the koran, if you are accepting that the koran was preserved and compiled from an ayat that says we guarded it, why do you deny the bit from the same koran which says the koran is on " a preserved tablet"? You are making a series of logical fallacies, circular reasoning and arguing from a suppressed premise, it is a pity muslims cannot apply an objective slant to anything outside of what the koran says for the nightmarish realisation it brings, how could it possibly have been preserved when they are several accounts of missing verses, some coming from the prophet's own wife, and caliphs without any prophetic mandate amended and altered the text? But the bukhari hadith that tells of it's compilation by zaid you accept making an argument out of silence on it's perfect preservation even though the hadith does not remotely mention this, on what basis do you then deny all the other hadiths that shed light on that scenario? If the hadith goes in the bin because it contradicts your notion of how the koran was compiled, when that notion is not backed by any hadith why do you not show the same scrutinity towards the koran? when it's compilation itself (your notion of it's perfect compilation) is not backed by any hadith ? Do you not see this as circular reasoning? In other words you are accepting the koran as a perfect compilation even though you are well aware that the compilation was compiled after the death of Mohammed? By people with no prophetic mandate who discarded verses and inserted verses where they saw fit, you are still accepting the koran as compiled perfectly because the koran said we are it's guardians (but you are aware that the compilation itself was done several years after that ayat???) even though there are contradictory and conflicting circumstances to it's compilation pray tell us how do you reconcile this notion that the koran was compiled as a perfect book when all surrounding ahadith are contradictory and do not even remotely support your affirmation of the consequent logical fallacy using your own logic of denying contradictory ahadith, from what sources do you justify that the koran was compiled perfectly? This is in essence what you are doing: You have a hadith that basically says "I Zaid compiled the koran" straight away you jump to the negative premise of a conclusion that the quran was compiled perfectly with a gazillion qiraa verifying each and every ayat even though this argument is made from silence as Zaid never mentions this is how the quran was compiled, in fact he mentions it was obtained from leafs, barks, animal skin and the memory of men who knew parts of it, this is further elaborated on in the above hadiths I showed you that Zaid would sit outside of the mosque and if two men could verify a quranic ayat it was included the problem with such a technique is several ayats could go missing if no one could vouch for it's inclusion, which is precisely what is found in the hadiths, stories of missing and changed verses, this is a far cry from your notion of umpteen qiraa verifying each ayat in perfect harmony because this myth is simply just that. You now dismiss all the evidence in the ahadith that contradicts your preconceived notion of a perfectly compiled koran claiming that they contradict each other hence grounds for their dismissal. I ask you if they all contradict each other you do realise that using this logic of dismissing them all you would in the light of objectivity also have to dismiss the hadith that Zaid compiled the koran since it also contradicts the above hadiths and others that Abu Bakr compiled it, or was it Umar or was it Uthmann or was it Ali, if not why include it and dismiss the others, on what basis? Who then compiled your quran what basis do you have that it was perfectly compiled? |
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