Trinity DebateTrinity debate
So your human will is submitted to the will of God, correct? Let's see: one human will + one will of God = two wills which means a dual nature. Have you ever prayed saying, "not my will but Thy will be done"? Well I do pray for God's will in situations and so did Jesus as a man. It is possible for born again believers to stray away from the Will of God and do their own will which is why it is so important to seek God in prayer. Jesus warned about just that in Matthew 7:21-23. Jesus as a man had to submit His human will as Son to the will of the Father (Spirit). Jesus never claimed He did the will of the Son but the will of the Father. I fully explained this in detail in my previous posts. Again I have explained this point numerous times. The omnipresent Spirit of the Father was: 1. In Heaven and 2. Indwelt the human body of the Son together at the same time. Where was the omnipresent Spirit of the Father? 1. In Heaven and 2. Indwelling the body of the Son thus in both places at the same time. Where was the human spirit of the Son? In the human body of the Son - where else could it be? I already stated that in my last post. Are you playing games with me pretending you did not read that already? Part of the problem is the issue regarding the name of Jesus which Jesus as a man said, "I have manifested Thy [the Father's] name..." (John 17:6). And again Jesus said, "And I have declared unto them Thy [the Father's] name. (John 17:26). "Jesus was Omnipresent and Limited at the same time"... As a Spirit (Father) He was omnipresent and as a man (Son) He was limited. How else could it be? Even according to the trinity doctrine the Son was limited as a man, you admitted that yourself in the following: Thus according to what you said yourself which I agree with; the Son was limited as a man whether trinity or Oneness. However the difference is an omnipresent Son could not manifest as a man without still retaining His attribute of being omnipresent, that is, existing in heaven and indwelling the body of a man at the same time. This is where the trinity falls apart. For the trinity states a co-eternal Son lost His Divine attributes to become a man thus contradicting that God cannot change His attributes (Malachi 3:6). And you again admitted that it is not possible for God to change His attributes. What is the point in you asking the same questions over and over again and then say I did not answer them? You keep avoiding responding to my arguments by repeating the same questions which I already answered. No matter, there are others who will read this thread who will acknowledge the Truth and be blessed by it. Why don't you re-read my posts or read them more carefully to begin with? I plainly stated in my posts on this same thread that the omnipresent Spirit of the Father was 1. in heaven and 2. indwelling the body of the Son (on earth) at the same time. I just repeated this again in this post above. The human spirit of the Son was not omnipresent - why? - because He was human. Again you keep referring to the name of Jesus as only applying to the Son as a separate person and the Father having a different name which is not true. The confusion relating to the name of Jesus is a rotton fruit the trinity doctrine produces. As I stated many times throughout this forum and above in this post that the name of Jesus is the revealed name of the ONE God. The Son manifested and declared the name of the Father (John 17:6 and 17:26). And by inheritance the Son obtained His name from the Father (Heb 1:4) And that name is Jesus.
What Glory did the Son have before the foundation of the world? The Glory He had as the ONE omnipresent Spirit. Again Jesus was speaking out of a dual nature. The Divine nature - the Spirit of the Father indwelling the body of the Son pre-existed in eternal Glory. At the moment Jesus was praying that prayer He was in a state of high anxiety for He knew His time was at hand. His humanity was struggling against the Spirit. He was sweating beads of blood. He realized by the Spirit the Glory He had as the ONE omnipresent Spirit before He took on the form of a human body. There is no other possiblity. As I stated before it is impossible for a co-eternal Son to change His attribute of being omnipresent. And it is another impossibilty the Son pre-existed as non-omnipresent Spirit otherwise He was not co-equal in attributes. Either way the trinity contradicts both those possibilities. "[the Son] whom He [the Father] hath appointed heir of all things, by whom [the Son] He [the Father] also made the worlds"...this simply confirms the Father and the Son were ONE and the self same Spirit as far as eternity is concerned. When God created Adam He foreknew the future and already had a plan. God created Adam in the form that He Himself wanted to become. And four thousand years later right on schedule God did just that. For Romans 5:14 says Adam was the figure of Him [Jesus] that was to come. Therefore God knew and planned from the beginning that He would take on the role as Redeemer for mankind as the Son. The terms "Father" and "Son" are roles (not separate persons) of ONE God who Has ONE name. The role of "Son" was part of the plan God had in mind for Himself before creation. One day I plan on having a son, the Lord willing. For now my son only exists in my mind and has not yet been manifest. I have contemplated what name he will have and what kind of life I desire for him. He will inherit my surname. My son does not co-exist with me in person but when he is born he will share my genes thus a part of me will be in him. However, before you start mocking my little analogy here keep in mind the principle and not the literal as it applies to God, if you please. So God had a plan to take on the role as Redeemer which would be the form of Adam (human) as the Son. Once God would manifest as the Son and would finish the atonement for Adam's sin; He would retain that form but in the glorified form after the resurrection and ascension. For 1 Cor 15:45 says the last Adam (Jesus) was made a quickening spirit. Now this brings us up to date to the present - the ONE omnipresent Spirit (Father) invisible form co-existing with the Glorified Son (the last Adam) visible form together in heaven. Now in the Glorified form, the Son would inherit all things.
"[the Son] Who being the brightness of His [the Father's] glory"... Where do you get the simple verb "being" means "eternally being"? The phrase "being the brightness" in the Greek is "aman" meaning "to go to the right hand -- to be faithful of long continuance, to be true or certain, to be permanent, etc. (Strong's 539, 541). In other words this phrase is simply stating the express image of the Father the Son reveals is true and certain - accurately revealing the Father's person to us. Therefore, when we see Jesus as the Son (visible form) we have an accurate visual image of the Father (invisible form). It also implies "to go to the right hand" that the visible form (Son) has been exalted into a position of power and authority. I never said Jesus was not Deity as the Son. He was Deity as the Father revealed in bodily form. The humanity of Jesus was not Deity otherwise how could the human part die? If the humanity was Deity that would mean God died as omnipresent Spirit in human form. God cannot die except the human form He took on. Jesus refered to Himself as "Son of God" - Deity, and "Son of Man" - humanity. Thus describing His dual nature. The Divine attributes Jesus ascribed to as a man during His earthly life were those of the Father's according to His Divine nature. But if the trinity were true a pre-existent Son did have His Divine attributes taken from Him namely the attributes of being "omnipresent" and "all-knowing" as I explained recently on this thread. But in Oneness all those contradictions are removed. What radient light? What radiance or shining forth of Divine Glory? What rays related to the sun? See Strongs 539, 541 for the meaning of "being the brightness" as I already explained here above. "and upholding all things by the word of His [the Father's] power"...The "His" in this verse refers to the Father. Therefore, the Son as heir now upholds all things by the word of the Father's power which the Son inherited. Again this describes the transfer of power and authority from the Father(invisible form) to the Son (visible form). |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame