(Omega) wrote:Hello hisway!

I lost my response to you TWICE immediately upon pressing the submit button. Anyways here we go!

hisway wrote: To answer your questions:

1. Yes, one Divine Spirit and one human spirit (soul). Is that not the case with every born again believer? I have my human spirit (soul) in tact and I have the Holy Ghost dwelling in me as a born again believer. I am still one person but now I have two natures - my own and the Christ-like nature in one body. That is what is meant by "Dual Nature".

2. Jesus as a man on earth had the Spirit of the Father (Divine) and the spirit of a man (Flesh) together in the same body like I explained above. So what happened to the human spirit of Jesus after He died? The same thing that happens when any human being dies. The difference is Jesus was resurrected (as the firstfruits of the resurrection) and believers have not yet been resurrected. What happened when the human body of Jesus was resurrected? The same thing that is going to happen when the saints are resurrected - His old body was changed into a glorified spirit body. His form changed from a limited flesh form to the glorified spirit form. So now we have the ONE God co-existing in two forms presently - ONE omnipresent Spirit (Father) and the glorified form of the Son. That is why Jesus said it was expedient that He go away otherwise the Comforter (Holy Ghost) could not come. Why? Because Jesus in the form of a limited man could not fill the hearts of believers until He took on glorified omnipresent Spirit form.

3. I believe I answered this question above in No. 2 but to clarify: The ONE omnipresent Spirit (Father) as God can take on whatever form He desires whether it be angelic (Angel of the Lord in the O.T.) or flesh (Son before His resurrection) or Glorified Spirit Son (after His resurrection).

4. First of all Oneness does not teach two "Spirits" (watch your capitalization) but a Spirit (Divine) and spirit (human). Again, that is no different than any living born again believer. What do you mean the flesh cannot pray, think or talk? I talk to unsaved flesh every day that is unsaved people who only have a human spirit but no Holy Spirit. Of course they can think and talk. How can I be misleading myself in that?

5. Of course Jesus would have two wills in one body - the same is for any born again believer. The whole life of living for the believer is to submit the flesh to the Spirit. Jesus as a man was simply doing the same thing. That is why He said "Not My will but Thy will". Why? Because His flesh did not want to suffer on the cross. He was sweating beads of blood in the garden when He was praying in anxiety. Again, this goes back to His Dual Nature which the trinity divides up into separate persons. The distinction is between the Divine nature and the human nature. As Deity (Divine nature) He was the Father and as human nature, the Son.

Do you realize what you have just said? You said One Divine Spirit (and) One Human Spirit, so what does one and one make? 2! Even if you have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you and your human spirit, does that not make two spirits? According to you God is ONE SPIRIT, do you not see where your flaw is hisway? I have presented an IRREFUTABLE argument in which you have been clearly proven wrong and in your attempts to try and reason against it you find yourself in a bind reasoning against common logic. Once again my dear friend, God is not the author of Confusion. My capitalization of the word Spirit has nothing to do with my argument, I did not say they can think, I clearly stated that the body WITHOUT the Spirit is dead, I CHALLENGE you to pray to God WITHOUT having a SPIRIT within you! Notice I capitalized Spirit to emphasize my point.

2 SPIRITS!!!

hisway wrote:I finally got you to admit it! What you say is an imposibility even for God.

There are things God cannot do:

1. He cannot lie

2. As omnipresent Spirit He cannot be confined to only one place at a time. So what you're saying is an omnipresent Spirit Son lost or put aside His attribute of being omnipresent. Impossible. This is the very fallacy of the trinity. Again I will quote Soloman:

"But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?" (1 Kings 8:27)

This verse could read "...how much less [the single human body of the Son]". The only way God can inhabit a body is if He co-exists outside that body as omnipresent Spirit filling "the heaven and the heavens of heavens" Soloman did not say God could not dwell on earth as a manifestation but could not dwell on earth and not co-exist filling the universe. Notice this verse is a "type" of the future temple referring to the bodies of believers.

To say what you said denies the Father's attribute of being omnipresent; as God had to have a second omnipresent Spirit to do His job. What you said also degrades the Deity of Jesus as a junior God not equal in attributes to the Father because if the Son pre-existed He was not omnipresent since He took on a form of a man and did not exist outside that form filling the heavens as an omnipresent Spirit Son.

Get past my first argument which in which I clearly prove the God the Son is not God the Father, it is the Son who became incarnate as a man.
Philippians 2:7 - But made himself{heautou}of no reputation{kenoo}, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

No Reputation:{Kenosis}to empty or make empty. Laying aside equality with or the form of God, to make void. How is the Son incarnate as (a man) Omnipresent if He emptied Himself?

John 12:28 "Father, glorify Thy name." (There came therefore a voice out of heaven "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."

This passage in Scripture clearly proves that anyone listening to Jesus would not come to the conclusion that within His body was the Omnipresent spirit of the Father. This was clearly a conversation between the FATHER in HEAVEN and the SON on EARTH! Let me guess as to your next response:Since nothing can contain God, the Omnipresent Spirit of God which was filling the universe spoke from Heaven at the same time the ubiquitous Spirit of God dwelled within the Son

(Omega) wrote:

(Omega) wrote:

hisway wrote:

burwelm wrote:Jesus and God are separate people. If they were the same person they could not talk to each other. Jesus has all the power and understanding and is just like God- but he is God's son- he cannot be the son and the father at the same time- Jesus is the son of man- God is no the son of man.

A man, John Doe, has a wife and has a son. He is a husband to his wife and a father to his son. He also has a father and is a son in relation to his father. His name is John Doe, one person who has one name yet he is a father to his own son and a son to his own father at the same time. Is John Doe two different and distinct persons? According to the trinity doctrine he is. That is how ridiculous the trinity doctrine is. God is a Spirit with no physical limitations. He can manifest Himself as the Angel of Lord, as a man in the flesh and if He desired to - a flame in a burning bush. He could do all those simultaneously if He choose. Jesus said wherever two or three are gathered in His name He is there in their midst. What if you have a group in New York, another group in Seattle, and another group in China all gathered together at the same time? Would Jesus be in the midst of one group at a time or all at the same time? Would each group have to book an appointment with the Lord?

As for Jesus as a man talking to the Father is no great mystery. Jesus as a man had a dual nature - fully God and fully man together at the same time. As God He had the authority to forgive sins. As a man (flesh) He would pray to the Father (Spirit). God is God alone and beside Him there is no Saviour. (Isaiah 43:11). There was no God formed before Him neither shall there be after Him. (Isaiah 43:10) If Jesus pre-existed as the Son then Isaiah must be a false prophet. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not separate persons but rather One God revealed in different roles and manifestations.

Your argument about John Doe is flawed in asking whether John Doe, who is a Father and a son, is two separate people. No, he isn't. He is ONE person. But when John talks to his son, or to his father, THEN there are 2 people involved, not just one.

Likewise when Jesus prays to the Father, there are two persons involved. They are both God, but they inhabit different places (one in Heaven, and one on Earth).

Please read the following description of the end, where Jesus will deliver up to the Father, the kingdom. And in verse 27, The Father put all things under Jesus feet, with the exception of the Father himself. And in the end, (verse 28) Jesus will be subject to the Father, who originally put all things under Jesus feet.

If these Gods were all the same person, at the same time, these verses makes NO sense at all. But if we take the position that God is manifested in three persons, the Godhead, and all are distinct from each other, then all three of them can interact with each other, and the verse makes sense.


1 Corinthians 15:23-25
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
(KJV)

1 Corinthians 15:27-28
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
(KJV)

God Bless!

I don't forget, what happened here?

(Omega) wrote:

(Omega) wrote:A question for hisway:

It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two menis true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. John 8:18,19

When we read the above passage, Jesus said that in their law it is written that the testimony of (two men) is true. Jesus is one who bears witness of Himself, and His Father is the other who bears witness of Jesus. The question to you is that if Jesus and the Father are not two persons then verse 18 doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And in other words, Jesus is deceiving the Pharisees, obviously that is not the case. In this passage, Jesus' argument against them was that He and the Father are two, meaning that they are not the same person.

God Bless!

You didn't answer this one either, thanks for your cooperation!

God Bless!

God Bless!