I see I missed one of your posts we were probably posting at the same time.
Aieno, I'll begin this with an apology. I do not understand the difference between 'orientation' and 'behavior'. If I'm 'oriented' to do anything then my behavior will demonstrate such.
To me being gay is as natural as breathing air. I do not have the verbal expertise that anyone else you've discussed this with to understand the differance.
Any example I use to show the difference between orientation and behavior may be offensive but. An alcoholic is orientated to alcohol consumption. Most, if not all, medical authorities view alcoholism as a genetic disease. So an alcoholic has an orientation that is also a behavior and the behavior is drinking alcohol.
Now lets see if I can take the edge off the example. I fully understand that being gay is as natural to you as breathing air. You did not choose to be sexually attracted to men. And that is where educating the general public is important. Heterosexuals do not choose to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex; to them this is as natural as breathing air.
I do not feel any differently than someone does to choose to breath air or not. No one is born to and has the feelings to do such at an early age:
1. Committ crimes
2. Hate anyone of a specific color
3. Practice prejudice
etc.
The fact that this is a 'Christain Website' I'd hope you'd invite a plethora of different of opinions. You've still failed in my opinion other than to quote the bible a 2000 year old document , to site specific reasons as to why being gay is:
1. Either a choice. Please demonstrate how an any 8 year old chooses this?
2. Is 'sinful' since Jesus himself didn't speak against such.
Prejudice is for the most part learned by example. Prejudice is the result of environment and other factors. For instance, both my parents brought all of us up to believe that all men are equal. One of my father's favorite expressions was "all men put their pants on the same way, one leg at a time". Any racist remark could land one of us kids in the corner for being hateful. Then the Watts riots injured one of my mother's cousins who was an L.A. Detective. My mother developed a fear of Afro-Americans and prejudice became a part of her thinking. My father's father was prejudiced towards German's because of WW I and since my mother has a lot of German heritage he made her life miserable.
I saw a documentary on either the Discovery Channel or PBS where a college professor in sociology conducted a round table discussion with his students on the subject of prejudice aimed at gay men. To my surprise religion was not even brought up by the male students. The basis of their prejudice was fear and a deep felt threat to their masculinity, which is why some atheists are homophobes.
I will repeat having a gay orientation is not a choice. You want Biblical evidence Jesus spoke against homosexuality? Okay here it is:
Matthew 23:1-11
23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things, and do not do them. 4 "And they tie up heavy loads, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. 5 "But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries, and lengthen the tassels of their garments. 6 "And they love the place of honor at banquets, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called by men, Rabbi. 8 "But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 "And do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 "And do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. 11 "But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 "And whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted. NAS
The Scribes and the Pharisees taught the Torah and Jesus is instructing Jews to adhere to the Law, which includes Leviticus 18.
Matthew 5:17-32
17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.
21 "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'You shall not commit murder' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. 23 "If therefore you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your offering there before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. 25 "Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, in order that your opponent may not deliver you to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 "Truly I say to you, you shall not come out of there, until you have paid up the last cent.
27 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery'; 28 but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell. 31 "And it was said, 'Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce'; 32 but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. NAS
Many Christians take verse 17 totally out of context and use this to mean we are not under the law, however when taken in full context Jesus actually made the Law more restrictive. What Jesus did was fulfill the penalty clauses of the Law; He did not abolish, revoke, or annul the Law.
The Law was given to the sons of Israel and is our tutor or guide for living a righteous life. We can view the Torah as the Hebrews constitution for the nation of Israel, which was originally established as a theocracy.
We do invite "a plethora" of opinions and viewpoints on homosexuality on this message board. With this disclaimer; that our non-Christian and Christian members treat each other with courtesy and respect. Personal attacks and ignorant or uneducated remarks do not promote real diaglogue.