HELLO WEBMASTER
Your comments are received, and I must say I am not at all surprised.
I think it would be fair to say that what you have said can be seen by anyone who has followed this thread (if anyone has been allowed to) to be extremely hostile, judgemental, un-Christian, condemnatory, flavoured strongly with an arrogant air of unwarranted superiority, and totally without support by the bible, and indeed displays conduct that is the complete opposite of what the "committed followers of Christ" as you people so proudly and loudly claim to be, are actually supposed to do.
Further, it is also apparent that your very clear hostility has obviously arisen from my successful refutation of all sound biblically based arguments that have been put on this issue, including those by your staff.
I note particularly that my posts to tuppence and her husband Barry yesterday and the days prior, successfully refuted their arguments, and apparently ripped to shreds the much lauded and globally believed evangelical doctrines Barry mentioned in his post to me, and challenged me to overcome, which of course anyone could, and I did.
The realization that what we have long believed to be true - is actually not true, is hardly a comforting experience, and ceratinly it appears to have given no comfort to you, or your staff, however if truth is the aim of this forum, what do you expect? I would also say this is a forum, not a nursery for your precious but clearly flawed doctrines, true?
I am completely unperterbed by your comments, as usual, but I do have a few for you to consider.
I wont bother repeating the oft heard "Judge not and you shall not be judged" passage, though it certainly applies here, instead I will address the issues you raised, which are silly in the extreme, but since I have some time to waste, this is a pleasent way to waste it.
Firstly, this is supposed to be a forum, where truth is discovered by focused and biblically sound debate, at least that is what one is led to believe by the manner in which the forum is presented on this website.
Second, I have submitted the question, what was the original sin, and given this forum my thoughts on the matter, though those thoughts are not necessarily my firm belief, at least not at this point in time. I asked members of the forum to submit their views, and some have done so and some have agreed or principally agreed with the thoughts I gave. This is the purpose of these forums, so I have done nothing wrong in that regard.
Third, I have stated, and truthfully, that we have not been told by anyone what the original sin actually was because it is apparent that no one knows, and inherent in that is the belief that the bible, when prayerfully studied, surely holds the true answer to that question. And since Adams sin is the primary source of all the strife, sin and trouble on this earth, it is apparent that God would want us to know what that sin was, and there is no reason He would not want us to know, particularly since He gave us Genesis, in which we do indeed find that answer is revealed - if we pray and try to understand it God will enable us to do so.
Fourth, I have pointed out several times now, in detail, that if we say Adam and Eves sin was a generic thing, such as disobedience or rebellion, this does not tell us what their actual sin was, and it also accuses God of the same sin - which I cannot accept - because after Adam sinned God declared Adam had become like Him, knowing both good and evil. Are you trying to say God is a sinner too? Because that is precisely where your false doctrines lead, notwithstanding St Pauls comments.
By the way, St Pauls comments are not at all contradicted by anything I have said, or ever would say - you imply this solely to enable you to condemn me, it has no basis in truth. Now if that is not so then please quote from any post of mine where I have quoted from St Paul or directly contradicted what he said. Bet you cant! But hey, why not just make it up?
Fifth, it is true that Jesus was tempted by Satan, I have not denied that nor contradicted that in any way, nor would I. Again you are trying to put this up as an excuse to condemn me and it has no basis in fact.
Sixth, what St Paul says about Adams sin and the connection he makes between that event and Christ, I totally agree with and believe! Further, even if the original sin was what I have suggested, that still would not alter anything about Christ or His death for our sins, though it could show us some deeper meaning, there is no doubt Adam sinned, and it matters not what that sin was, it was still sin, it was still disobedience to God, but its full ramifications have not, in my view, been exposed, the whole world is suffering even today, and all of creation, because of that sin, yet you want to hide it, you are not open to see it, you are afraid of it!
Seventh - if the premise I have put is true, then we know what Adams sin was, so tell me, why is this so threatening to you? You appear scarred of what it may reveal, it appears you regard it as a pandoras box that once opened may shatter all your precious doctrines and beliefs, but trust me, although this is an interesting topic, it is not as revolutionary as you make it appear to be, its just the identification of Adams sin, that would not change anything in the New Testament, indeed it would give added weight to everything the New Testament has said, and it would also increase our awarness and understanding. So why are you so paranoid about this? Where is the evangelical zeal for the knowledge of God and the true human condtion? If you were a true evengelical you would realise that if you knew what this sin was, you would hold far more credibility in the mind of those you seek to persuade and convert, and this would be a powerful and effective tool to communicate to the world about Christ, adding a logical and understandable basis to the evengelical appeal, opening peoples minds wider to the reality that we must come to Him and be saved, adding further to the importance of why all humanity owes Him that which we can never pay. There is nothing wrong with knowing the answer to this question, it is one of the most important things we today need to see in my view, because Gods creation is being decimated, everyone knows this, and if the Chruch had the answer as to why, exactly, she would have something far more credible and acceptable to the modern intellect and those who are concerned about the plight of humanity and where all this is leading.
Your obvious presumption that I am some kind of heretic because I dont subscribe to your narrow view of the Christain faith, and see a wider and more rational view, is not something we should be surprised about, all the narrow minded people throughout the history of the Chruch have done what you have done, but we need to ask ourselves are we truly on the right team or do we just think we are? We should also ask oursleves if our motives are truly Christain, or just plain evil?
I put it to you that were you the head of a powerful Chruch, you would burn me at the stake, there were others like you in Christs time, and because they could not hear what he had to say, mostly because what He said disagreed with their own false doctrines, they killed Him. This is the classic pharissee syndrome, condemn what you cannot or will not accept. Now despite the pure evidence from the bible that you are completely and utterly wrong, it is also clear that you and your staff are blatantly twisting scripture, taking Gods pure words out of context, bearing false witness, condemning Christains, and wrong in everything you have said thus far to me. You are the typical evengelical, I have been around a few years and know many of your type. You use scripture to condemn, not build up Gods people, this is your stock in trade, wolves in sheeps clothing it seems.
Your quote from Revelation is a good example of that, completely out of context, the passage is directed at those who would corrupt the text of Revelation by changing it - which would probably only be possible if I worked in a bible translating role, which I dont. See, what you are is plain to all and sundry, but apparently not to you, I suggest you consider that seriously. You probably think you are doing the right thing, but you need to consider your situation, and make the appropriate changes, eternity is a long time to regret a life spent intentionally and publically breaking Gods commandments and condemning and judging others, dont you think?
You have a lot of accounting to do before God webmaster, but in the meantime if you can ever get off your doctrines long enough, Jesus Christ wants to set you free, and fill your heart with His love, and yes, He invites you to walk on water with Him. I suggest you get on your knees before Him now and tell Him you want to make a fresh start. Tell Him I forgive you, He already knows that anyway, so there is no curse by me, you are free to change today!
Until you do you will continue to condemn those who are His. Yours is the way of the world, not of Christ. Think about this, you are a webmaster at the Jesus Christ Forums, people are invited to come there and debate serious issues of the Christain faith, yet you use that position to bring disrepute on Christs name by publicly breaking His commandmants, condenming people who come there, and bearing false witness against them in the public view - this is Christianity? I think not, neither does any one else! This following quote shows how desperate your situation is. Talk about the fall in Eden, mate, you are the epitome of it all.
YOU WROTE
What you are trying to do is set up yourself greater then the Jesus Christ or the Apostle Paul. If you are foolish enough to do this then do so at your own peril!
Anyone who has been following this thread would be well aware that what you said above is a complete fabrication and the response one would expect from someone like you. So your words are certainly no surprise to me.
My response is this: If you cannot properly consider and debate Gods words sanely, rationally, intelligently, one Christian to another, without complete condemnation of them as you have done, then you need to reconsider what you are doing, and see a psychiatrist or a priest or someome!
Why dont you just throw me off these forums? You clearly intend to sooner or later!
I have copied all the posts, unless you apologize to me on this forum publicly, I will publish them on the web and show what a farce you and this site really are, directing Chruch members, pastors and leaders to the content - you have my word on that! I give you seven days!
I notice too you and your staff have breached the rules of this forum, which you yourseves instituted, handy eh?
May God bless and keep and smile upon you always webmaster, but in all sincerity unless you change, it is doubtful He will.
Kerry