Aineo wrote:Evangelion, then we have even more apparent contradictions in the Bible
Ah, but they're only
apparent contraditions, Aineo. The good Bible student know show to resolve them.
because if you took the time to read my prior post Jesus is referred to as God in more than one Scripture.
Oh really? Give me a list, please.
If Jacob saw a "representation" of Yehovah then Jacob did not actually see Yehovah
Of course he didn't; the reference is purely figurative anyway. What he saw was one of God's
representatives. To see a representative of God, is to see God in a certain sense.
Even Jesus used this same language:
- John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Now, according to
your logic, Jesus is claiming to be the Father! But we know that he is not the Father; he is the Son. How, then, can he say "He who hath seen me hath seen the Father"?
Because he is the
representative of the Father, bearing His name to the world.
Another good example is found here:
- John 4:1-3.
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
(Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
He left Judea, and departed again into Galilee.
The very first verse of this chapter turns upon the issue of representation. It enables us to explain how certain acts which are attributed to God, can also be attributed to His representatives - just as acts which were performed by Jesus' representatives could be attributed to
him..
This is more easily seen when we break the passage into separate verses:
- John 4:1.
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
Here we are told that Jesus baptised more disciples than John. But is that
really what John is trying to tell us?
Let's look again:
- John 4:2.
(Though Jesus baptised not, but his disciples)
Here we have the explanation of the original verse. Jesus
himself was not the one who was literally baptising; it was his disciples who performed this work. But the ritual was performed in Jesus' name and under his auspices - and for this reason, it is legitimately ascribed to him.
Adam Clarke's
Commentary has:
- Joh 4:2 - Jesus himself baptized not -
See Joh_3:22.
Crossing to Clarke's notes on
John 3:22, we find:
- And baptized -
It is not clear that Christ did baptize any with water, but his disciples did - Joh_4:2; and what they did, by his authority and command, is attributed to himself. It is a common custom, in all countries and in all languages, to attribute the operations of those who are under the government and direction of another to him by whom they are directed and governed.
Some however suppose that Christ at first did baptize; but, when he got disciples, he left this work to them: and thus these two places are to be understood: -
1. this place, of Christ’s baptizing before he called the twelve disciples; and
2. Joh_4:2, of the baptism administered by the disciples, after they had been called to the work by Christ.
and any "image" of Yehovah is a violation of the 2nd Commandment.
Um, that's a reference to the
graven image, not a person who
represents God.
Since you seem to find the original language so helpful what exactly is the phrasing in Genesis 32:30?
Genesis 32:30
And called 7121
Jacob 3290
the name of 8034
the place 4725
Peniel: 6439
for 3588
I have seen 7200
God 430
face 6440
to 413
face, 6440
and is preserved. 5337
my life 5315
(Interlinear Transliterated Bible. Copyright (c) 1994 by Biblesoft)
"Eloyhim" not "Yehovah" is the word translated God.
Genesis 32:24-30
So what?
Verse 30. Jacob called the name of the place Peniel (Penuel) - i.e., Face of God. Though here and elsewhere in Scripture mention is made of manifestations of the Divine Being to particular persons, it must be borne in mind that it was not the real (John 1:18 ), but only the substituted face-the reflected image of the Deity; not the full splendour of His transcendent glory, but such a display of it as the human faculties in their present state can bear (cf. Exodus 33:20); and so He was revealed with chastened radiance, in the character of Him who was "the express image of His person."
For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. There was a prevailing belief that man, in a state of sin, could not survive any direct vision of the Divine Being; because to such God is a consuming fire. This is evidently alluded to (Exodus 20:19; Deuteronomy 4:4; Hebrews 12:29), and it forms the ground of the joyful surprise which is expressed by Jacob.
(from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1997 by Biblesoft)
Uh... relevance? This proves nothing.
In other words the "man" Jacob wrestled with is how the NT describes Jesus.
Oh really? Where does the Bible say it was Jesus?
You might want to click
here.