Apologetics Forum: Ask questions about Christianity/Debate doctrinesONE GOD-ONE NAME"For in Him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him..." (Col 2:9-10) "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" (1 John 2:23) You misunderstand me Aineo, I never said "if you have the Son you don't need the other manifestations". What I said and what the Bible said is that if you have the Son you have the Father also. To confess the Son is to confess the Father also. To have Jesus is to have the Father also. The verses above mean exactly what they say. There is no secret or mystery to uncover. In Jesus: you have the Father, you have the Son, you have the Holy Ghost - all in ONE complete package. Now lets look in Romans chapter 8: 9) "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His." According to Romans 8:9 there is mentioned "the Spirit of God" and "the Spirit of Christ". Are these two different Spirits - one of the Father and one of the Son? If you add the Holy Ghost then we have three different Spirits that indwell the Believer? The Bible plainly declares that God is ONE Spirit. Moreover, in Rev 3:1 we have "the seven Spirits of God" - does that mean we have seven more distinct persons? All of those are the operation of ONE God and selfsame Spirit. If we took every manifestation of God mentioned in the Bible and gave them each their own name as separate persons we would have more gods than Hinduism. How can you say Oneness and Acts 2:28 ignores that Jesus came to point the Jews to the Father?? The very first converts were Jews. In fact God had to show Peter in a vision that it was OK to go to the Gentiles because he still thought that the salvation Christ wrought was for the Jews only - Acts chapter 10). Furthermore, Paul was a Pharicee before his conversion. I think what you're hinting to here is the "Dual Covenant" theology which is a huge topic in itself. How can you say my concept denies that Jesus is at the right hand of God? First of all God does not have a literal right hand - He is a Spirit without a body of hands and feet. Therefore the "right hand" is a figure of speech as in if you have someone working for you as your "right hand" man - you are saying he has your full authority. The "right hand" in the Bible context is the 'right hand' of power and authority. I don't understand why you ask a manifestation has different identities in heaven. There is only ONE identity in heaven. The titles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not identities - eg if a man named John Doe has a wife and children he is: 1. a husband, 2. a father, 3. a son . He has ONE name and is ONE person yet he can claim all those titles. To his wife he assumes the role of husband; to his children he assumes the role of father; to his own father he assumes the role of a son. These all describe different relationships of ONE person who has ONE name. That is what the Oneness of God is saying about Father, Son, Holy Ghost. To call upon the name of Jesus is to call on all the roles, titles, etc of God in ONE name and ONE person. Now lets talk about Gnosticism since I've been accused of proclaiming Gnostic doctrine: Here are the facts: Gnostcism professes salvation through secret knowledge. I have professed nothing but salvation through Jesus Christ. The Christian Gnostics refused to identify the God of the New Testament with the God of the Old Testament. On the contrary I have stated that Jesus is the God of both the O.T and N.T. If anything the trinity divides the God of the O.T. from the God of the N.T. like the Gnostics do. The Christian Gnostics taught that Jesus did not have a physical body, but rather His apparent physical body was an illusion, and hence His crucifixtion was not bodily. I have plainly quoted what the Bible says that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh (a body of flesh and blood, fully human). The Gnostics claimed that "the divine spirit" inhabited the body of Jesus, if indeed He really had a body according to them, and that He did not die on the cross but ascended to "the divine realm" The Gnostics thus rejected the atoning suffering and death of Jesus and His resurrection. But what I claimed is the death, buriel and resurrection of Jesus Christ and how that is applied in Acts 2:38. Quote: "Overview of Gnosticism" by Lewis Loflin: "Gnosticism usually refers to an esoteric cult of divine knowledge (a synthesis of Chritianity, Judaism, Greek philosophy, Hinduism, Buddhism, and the mystery cults of the Mediterranean), which flourished during the 2nd and 3rd centuries and as a rival to, and influence on, early Christianity." "The Book of John and Revelation are both Gnostic in origin. Gnosticism is a pagan, dualistic system (God verses Satan, etc from Zorastrianism and other Eastern religions)" "The Book of John and Revelation are Gnostic/Essene in origin. Paul was very revered by them but I wouldn't call Paul an outright Gnostic. His spiritual experience on the road to Damascus in Acts is typical Gnosticism or spiritual enlightenment." So according to the definition of Gnosticism by Lewis Loflin anyone who professes to be a Christian is a Gnostic. I suppose we must all now get rid of the Book of John, Book of Acts, and the Book of Revelation out of the Bible. Therefore your argument of Gnosticism is moot and somewhat hypercritical. And Oneness theology does not claim that God is too holy to appear to mankind so he uses manifestations. God uses manifestations so He can be seen in creation His Glory is too great for man to look upon directly which is why He had to cover Moses in the cliff of the rock as He passed by. No man can look upon God in His full Glorified state as Spirit and live. God has no other choice but use manifestations to be seen by man. If God was too holy He would not had humbled Himself as a man as God in the flesh. God loves us so much that He would go through so much effort to reveal Himself. |
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