Hi again,
For the sake of those who don't know the meaning behind this question.. predestination and election is a doctrine that God chooses some to become believers and the non elect are those who never will become believers, because God has not chosen them. Ephesians 1 is the place where this doctrine is particularly discussed.
What do I believe in relation to this.. well Naaji is right in this regard, there are some doctrines that christians are not agreed on because it does depend on how you interpret the Bible and great Christians through the ages have disputed this one, however, my own feeling is that God is Soverign, yet we have free will. In His foreknowledge He knows who will respond to Him and who won't.
Now why is there a both side to this question... look at the theological problems in Romans 9:19 as stated by Paul "You will say to me then, why do you still find fault? For who resists his will? " How can man be responsible for his own sin and disbelief if it is all dependent on God?
If God chose to create two types of people, the elect and the reprobate and then programs them to respond to the nature they have been created with... a nature without allowing independent choice, the utltimate blame and cause for sin and failure to repent would lie with God and this is clearly not the Message of the Bible as a whole.
Scripture asserts "Thou art not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, neither shall evil dwell with Thee " Psalm 5:4
James 1:13 -14 states the same thing Isaiah 45:7 states that God has created a moral universe in which punishment follows wrong doing. The word used is ra which covers the whole range of "badness" from distressing calamaties to moral evil. Always though, there is the opposite light and darkness.
God created man and angels to enjoy him forever.. to do this demands voluntary choice. There can be no possiblity of real love without the possiblity of real hate and rejection. Without the freedom of choice, there is no morality and no love, but only automated mechanical response.
We should ask... if it was all of God.. then why does Satan exist? Why did he approach eve? Why not make Adam and Eve so completely good, they couldnot yield to temptation?
Jesus in the Garden on the night he was betrayed showed the agony of choice.. the knowledge of what total obedience to the will of God would cost him. Yet, His words "not my will but thine be done". Jesus who was totally man when he died on the cross had choice of obedience. He had to be tempted in every way as we were, yet was without sin... the only way to provide our atonement.
Man is totally and utterly responsible for his own moral choices and for the consequences of those choices with God as the yardstick of Holiness.
On the other hand, scripture asserts that Salvation is completely provided for by God alone. Our good deeds will never lead us to salvation and forgiveness no matter how sincere we may think we are being. One step outside of the moral code leaves us guilty before the holy God, regardless of how many good deeds we do. Eph 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5
Nothing we can offer God.. be it character, service, obedience contributes anything to our salvation. John 1:12 and Romans 10:9 -10 show this. Good works follow our salvation as a response to it.. not as a means to it James 2:26, Colossians 3:1-4)
The entire work of bringing someone to repentance is totally God's work (Romans 8:10,11, 14) Even the ability to respond to God ...ie our faith, is a gift from God Ephesians 2:9
God has chosen His redeemed from all eternity.. before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) He did not have to wait and see for He knows all things and knows what each one's response to the Gospel will be. These so called chosen ones are revealed and become part of the bride of christ John 17:6) that Jesus Christ will present to God
God's call is to all people's everywhere " Acts 17:30 -31 states "Now he commands all people everywhere to repent" yet... faced with the same command some repent and some do not. For some it is clear and easy to see the call of God through Christ on their lives, others will never accept it... or the free gift of the knowledge of salvation that is offered to everyone. John 6:37 states that "all the Father gives the Son shall come to Him and will be in no way cast out". Furthur more John 6:44 states that "No one can come to the Son, unless the Father draws Him"
It is God who calls
It is God who provides for our Salvation
It is God who draws us to Himself
We respond because God Himself gives us the ability to respond.
God is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance ( 2peter 3:9)
The character of God demands that we are responsible for our own sin and the choice we make to not accept His provision for the consequences of our sin.
The Omniscience of God knows those who wil respond
The love of God calls and draws those to Himself and provides them with the sacrifice of Christ to provide the punishment for those sins as demanded by the holiness and justice of God
The ability to respond comes from God..
Yet God still says
"So choose life that you may live" (Duet 30:19)
Too Humble, my previous argument was that Pharoh hardened his own heart and then God hardened Pharoh's heart and used Pharoh for His own glory. The end result was the glory of God and God knew that Pharoh would harden his heart against God.
I hope this answers some of your question at least. I have a busy weekend a head, so may not have time to write during it, but will continue this if you like on Monday if not before
Thanks and again sorry it took so long to find this mail. I was looking for it in the wrong forum
Carol_au