Shows how much you know of your koranic history
I didnt give a number cause there are contradicting views as to the
EXACT number by scholars. So no, you are the one that doesnt know anything of Quranic history and the countless opinions of scholars on this issue:
When the above are added to the seventy Ansar who were killed in the battle of Yamama against Musaylima the Arch-Liar, and who were all memorizers of the Qur'an (qurra') [Bukhari and Muslim], the number of the Companions who had memorized the Qur'an rises to over a hundred. This number excludes the numerous Companions -- whether named or unnamed -- whose status of memorizers did not reach us through isnad, as well as the women of both the Muhajirin and the Ansar. All of this memorizing was mass-transmitted. The numbers of the next generations, of course, keep rising exponentially in identical fashion of transmission, and praise belongs to Allah
http://www.sunnah.org/history/memorizers.htm
And since you have equiped your self with sunni madzhab they say different backed by five other scholars. It looks like they didnt agree with
Ibn Katheer as you stated he said. Your studies have only begun. And being that you dont have access to the Arabic makes it even worse for a critic.
..Ibn Kathir says 450 died and they didn't know the koran from end to end only parts of it and when they died the parts died with them hence the urgent need to collate it before the koran was lost entirely...
How did he know 450 died ? Where is his source coming from ? You have shown your incompetent reading comprehension tha for some reason give you Psychic illusionary understanding. So according to
your source that you believe then if 450 died that was regarded by Uthman as a "Heavy Loss" then those who did not die of the Qurraa'a that was to aid in future wars must have been around the same number to be feared for a "HEAVY LOSS" also if that is the EXACT number.
...have you ever wondered why it doesn't say "a large part of the quraa may be lost" why does it say "a large part of the koran may be lost"...
Did you ever wonder why it only implies to the future which didnt happen yet and never happened again ?
...and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost....
Its doesnt say that the death of the Quraa'a at Yamama resulted in a great loss of the Quran. It merely stated for what
MAY HAPPEN if they did not collect it as a book. It was a means of security which is all cases still did not happen again.
...in reference to the koranic material itself..
You have a good imagination I see.
...it would make a lot more sense to suggest the quraa were the ones being lost if the koranic material was not affected, your scholars at understanding-islam even suggests the believers at yamama were recent converts to islam chances of them knowing vasts amounts of the koran were slim to none.
Bring out your list of Scholars that says such a thing with there supported sources and we will bring out a list of scholars that says contrary. Lets see the list please. This how we muslims study other scholar sources. Scholars cannot come up and say something without some sort of backing.
Help me solve this conundrum how do you recite a text five times a day when your text has not been compiled yet?
Easy, its being even done today. They didnt need the Quranic text in a book form to memorize it completely. Remember the Quran was revealed in intervals of 23 years not all at once. Enough time to memory each verse and teach it to others before the next one was revealed.
Looks like allah couldn't protect them a pity seeing this were the guardians of the alledge heavenly text.
"
Guardians" I am still trying to figure out where you got this from. Allah never said that muslims were the Guardians of the Quran. Do you mind showing us where Allah said muslims are Guardians of the Quran?
As usual you are trying to wriggle out of this discussion by patronising statements, you forget I don't need any help understanding arabic.
Your own language? Do you think you are arabic?
Technically I am Arab by language not by culture or nationality.
Just like some back in the days called Americans or Europeans "The English" meaning those who spoke English. The term Arab also meant those who spoke Arabic. There nationality was based on where they were from like Egyptians, Palestinians, Sysrians, Jordanians, Moroccan, Iraqis.
[what is the meaning and relevance of this???].
Couldnt you figure it out ?
I suggest you go and read them from the usc website same as me:
English ? You want me to go to an English website ? Why when I have access to non translated sources ?
Show me where I edited the text?
Where are the parenthesis in your Quote ?
Not only is your argument completely irrational, why do you think Zaid would be collecting leaves barks and animal skin IF HE WAS NOT COLLECTING FRAGMENTS?
How big were the leaves (Leafstalks), stones (Tablets), barks, and animal skin (Parchments). Fragments are small portions of material. the irrational is based on your reading comprehension of imagining an inference of size that isnt there.
Do you think I don't know you are quoting from a shia website?
So how would you know ?
Why don't you quote the same hadith from a sunni website, seeing the shias do not have the same respect for Bukhari ahadith as the sunnis do, either way you are in effect telling me Mushin Khan is in error yes?
Your funny what do you think
www.al-islam.com is ? This is the English home page which and this is its Arabic home page
http://www.al-islam.com/arb/ it not a Shia website. That is the website on it Arabic pages I made the quote from being that I cannot copy out of my own Sahih Al-Bukhari that is in all Arabic.
Would you like to see a Sunni translation of that of that hadeeth ?
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit al-Ansari, one of the scribes of the Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra (memorizers of the Quran, were killed). Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said: "Umar has come to me and said, the people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle) of Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be some casualties among the Qurra at other places, whereby a large part of the Quran may be lost, unless you collect it (in one manuscript, or book)...so Abu Bakr said to me (Zaid bin Thabit): You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness) and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript)'...So I started locating the Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leafstalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who know it by heart)..." (24)
http://www.nellaieruvadi.com/islam/qurantext.asp
Here is another one:
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit al-Ansari, one of the scribes of the Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra (memorizers of the Quran, were killed). Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said: "Umar has come to me and said, the people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle) of Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be some casualties among the Qurra at other places, whereby a large part of the Quran may be lost, unless you collect it (in one manuscript, or book)…so Abu Bakr said to me (Zaid bin Thabit): You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness) and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript)'…So I started locating the Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leafstalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who know it by heart)…"
http://salam.muslimsonline.com/~bicnews ... abeel3.htm
This one was cool.
I couldnt discribe it better.
That brings us back to our dilemma where are your qualifications to dismiss what he has to say?
I speak Arabic.
Would you care to tell us what hafiz/hafeez means in english?
You mind telling me how you got out of :
Zaid said he successfully collected the entire Quran. How did he know he collected the entire Quran if he was not Hafeez or not of the Qurraa'a ? He obviously new cause what he transcribed into a complete book had to have been comfirmed by the Qurraa'a ie ahafeez who knew the entire Quran.
..that I said Zaid memorized the whole Quran ? He had to know in some way that he had transcribed the entire Quran in which he was order to collect in which I expressed that in order for him to know,
if he was not the Qurraa'a [does this sound like I am saying he was or he wasnt ?], it had to be confirmed by those who were of the Qurraa ie ahaveez.
And as for the word
hafeez dont you know ?
Why don't you answer the simple question?,
I did go back and read. We are going to be going at this for another month on the same topic for another month. You should know this. Its going to be a revolving door of repeat after repeat.
Ibn Kathir is in error so is Yusuf Ali and Sher Ali, and Marmaduke Pickthall, and Hilali and Khan, and everybody else because I have not found any islamic sect that considers sura 9:28 to be a prophecy of saudi oil
Exactly, you havent found any thats the whole thing. Most of those scholars you mentioned about do not make any comment on 9:28 you mind posting their tafsir other than Ibn Katheer.
Which translator are you going to favor the one that uses SOON or the one that doesnt ?
except for you (it is to be expected since you are the imam of your own sect). H2O ARE YOU CAPABLE OF MAKING ERRORS, ARE YOUR TRANSLATIONS SUPERIOR TO ALL OF THE ABOVE?
First of all what sect do I belong to ? I dont belong to any sect. Now you call me an Imam. So that means, I would have to have Arabic Qualification to be one of these. How else would I teach :roll: my students whos families are Arabs and and stundent them selves are Arabs ? Lets see what you get out of this
Wait a minute you have no conscience telling people to read something you regard as a terrible translation
You mind posting for the people when I made that statement what was it I refering to, the whole translation work of the Quran or a particular translation of a verse ? Please post so our guest can see.
it doesn't occur to you that the 80%+ of muslims that don't understand the arabic are using these 'terrible' translations,
And they have been told in the introductories their translations may contain errors and that is not the Quran and for them to refer to the Arabic for confirmation of accuracy. Thats why we have schools in America and Europe for them to come to.
or maybe it is really ok to lie for allah, no matter what the lie is as long as you are lying for allah you might get a few more houris?
That sound like a christian thing to me.
I seriously doubt you are involved at all in any of the stages, if it's going to be anything like what you have been spouting in this forum the fatwa will be arriving in florida faster than you know
Want a copy of it and the reference commented on it by the Mu'alimoon of Al-azhar and Medina ? Just PM me where you would like me to send it to you. Dont worry I wont send you any viruses or try to hack your computer, not my style.