Greetings H2O,
Thanks for sharing your commentary…
I can see that you are still not quite man enough to address me directly. You seem to be more comfortable talking to me in third person….is this the preferred Muslim way…?
Let’s see what you have to say…
BACK TO THE FUTURE
H2O wrote:
If you wish to listen to someone who doesnt even know how to speak Arabic but is merely doing a free lance translation whom has absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of Arabic, whom cant tell the difference of a verb, noun, or adjective, preposition, accusative etc off hand, then your just following vain comments that have no weight.
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 4760#44760
H2O wrote:
....And in order to translate one must be grammatically literate in both languages whereas what Apple Pie is mereless doing is a free lance translation, being illiterate to the grammar, that is remote from the reality of what the Arabic conveys or is meant. Thus leaving him to pick, choose and construct meanings to suit his apparatus agenda.
Of course though to make his free lance translation he would need a backbone structure of another translation as a rendering guide in order for him to get the idea so he can apply his tweeks and modifications. How did we know this ? We challenged him to translate Arabic before which were verses from the Quran without their verse number or chapter, and he failed to respond.
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 5682#45682
For some strange reason you still are clinging tenaciously to your pathetic colloquial argument, as if this had any merit whatsoever in refuting my Sura 86 exegesis.
You claim to speak modern Arabic…and……
so what?
In the same breathe that you proudly proclaim to speak
modern Arabic, you turn right around and run out and buy yourself the
classic Arabic Lexicons.
In fact, your very first purchase is one that you had been lambasting as “firewood”, from your Muslim brothers – but, you buy it anyway. Your next purchase, and, according to you, is “unbiased”, is from the World’s leading Arabist E.W. Lane, who was a devout
Christian.
Now…why would you, as an Arabic speaking individual, need to purchase $175.00 US in classic Arabic Lexical aids, if speaking Modern Arabic had any merit whatsoever to it in exegeting Classic Arabic…?!
You have already proven to us all that the colloquial aspects of modern Arabic hold little to no value in the understanding of the Classic Arabic in which your “holy book” was written.
I must commend you for repeatedly proving-out my point time, after time, after time…
APPLE PIE STATES ABOUT MUSLIM TRANSLATIONS OF SURAH 86 AND THE WHOLE QURAN IN GENERAL
Apple Pie wrote:
For the individuals that have been brought up in the “traditional” Muslim rhetoric, they will have a most difficult time with this, as serious re-programming will need to be performed on their psyche…
As far as the popular English Korans that are available to day…..throw them out….!
A grave injustice has been done by the modern-day authors of these translations, as they completely and utterly obliterate the “original” Arabic message…which is essentially Biblical Hebrew & Greek translated into Arabic…
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 4663#44663
Apple Pie wrote:
Well…if you read only the “popular” English renditions, and totally ignore the “original” Arabic, then yes, you will come away with a completely camouflaged rendering.
However, let’s take a look at the Arabic of 86.7 & 86.8 and discover the mind-blowing truth of the matter…
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 5030#45030
Apple Pie wrote:
Exegesis involves a critical analysis of the text in question. This being the case, I personally would not consider any of the Muslim offerings thus far to fall into the exegesis category…
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 5182#45182
So in other words Apple Pie is telling that you cannot trust muslim translations of the Quran, to throw them away, they cannot be trusted because their renderings are camouflaged in which he uses as was said "...Of course though to make his free lance translation he would need a backbone structure of another translation as a rendering guide in order for him to get the idea so he can apply his tweeks and modifications..."
Well…since you use your own “translations” of the Koran and you also are now relying heavily upon the lexical Arabic material of A
Christian, what exactly does this state regarding your position….?
Apple Pie further stresses what he believes and concludes :
Apple Pie wrote:
Thus, we can clearly see that the Arabic shows the Resurrection event to be an attribute that is rightfully due to God, alone. This is the reality of God…
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 5030#45030
Apple Pie wrote:
Yes…it is beyond any reasonable doubt that the Koran proclaims Jesus’ Crucifixion, Resurrection, and that He is God Almighty
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 5792#45792
So, if what he says is true to express that muslims have downplayed their holy scripture to hide what he believes to be a hidden secret that he uncovered in the Arabic, then other Arabic Speaking Christians who have transalated the Quran should agree with him about Surah 86.
Well...thanks for entertaining the idea that my exegesis is truth…this is a definite start…
Secondly, and, as you can clearly see for yourself, nothing is hidden to the individual who takes the time to properly exegete the Classic Arabic…
Now that you have the Lexical tools, you yourself can verify my exegesis as truth….of which, you are totally inept at doing by relying upon your pathetically worn-out colloquial argument…
Stop hiding behind a strawman argument and step up to the plate…
Quote:
In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
By the heaven, and by the Night-Comer!
But who shall teach thee what the night-comer is?
'Tis the star of piercing radiance.
Over every soul is set a guardian.
Let man then reflect out of what he was created.
He was created of the poured-forth germs,
Which issue from the loins and breastbones:
Well able then is God to restore him to life, --
On the day when all secrets shall be searched out,
86:10 And he shall have no other might or helper.
Translated from the Arabic by J. M. Rodwell, M.A
Quote:
In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate
86:1 By heaven and the night-star!
And what shall teach thee what is the night-star?
The piercing star!
Over every soul there is a watcher.
86:5 So let man consider of what he was created;
he was created of gushing water
issuing between the loins and the breast-bones.
Surely He is able to bring him back
upon the day when the secrets are tried,
86:10 and he shall have no strength, no helper.
A Translation by A. J. Arberry
Let me remind everyone that these Christian translations are made by men why know how to speak the language and didnt need other translations to help support their renderings.
There is no Christian, not even George Sale, Watt Williams, Edward Gibbon or any non Muslim translation of Surah 86 of the Quran that supports Apple Pie's wishful thinking.
Well…thanks for showing us a couple of “translations” of this sura…
Now…please show us the exegetical reasoning behind why they rendered it as they did…show me the bibliography from which they drew upon…
Perhaps someday you will learn the difference between “exegete” and “translate”…
Till then…