I have opted to post in this thread rather than in the "homosexuality in Nature" thread because this post is not related to the natural biquity of homosexuality in the animal kingdom.
To Ainea: You asked: “...What does God label abominable in His word? Then you answered your own question: “...This can be answered in one word - sin..”
Response: The word “abominable” is translated from the ancient Hebrew word “toevah.”
From http://hometown.aol.com/spiritandflesh/leviticus.html
“...ABOMINATION - (Hebrew: toevah) - This can also be translated as "uncleanness", "impurity", or "dirtiness". "Taboo", what is culturally or ritually forbidden, would be another accurate translation. The significance of the term toevah becomes clear when you realize another Hebrew term, zimah, could have been used. Zimah means not what is objectionable for religious
or cultural reasons, but what is wrong in itself. It means an injustice, a sin.
Furthermore, in the Septuagint the Hebrew word toevah in Leviticus 18:22 is translated with the Greek word bdelygma. Fully consistent with the Hebrew, the Greek bdelygma means a ritual
impurity, an uncleanness. Once again, there were other Greek words available, like anomia, meaning a violation of law, a wrong or a sin. That word could have been used to translate toevah. In fact, in some cases anomia was used to translate toevah - when the offense in question was not just ritual impurity but also a real wrong or an injustice, like offering child sacrifice or having sex with another man's wife. The Greek translators could have used anomia to translate
toevah in the case of "man lying with man" but they used bdelygma instead.
Evidently, the Jews of that pre-Christian era simply did not understand Leviticus to forbid male-male sex because it was wrong in itself. They understood Leviticus to forbid male-male sex
because it offended ancient Jewish sensitivities: it was dirty and Canaanite-like. It was unJewish.
And that is exactly how they translated the Hebrew text into Greek centuries before Christ...”
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Sin
"...The English word sin derives fromOld English synn. The same root appears in several other Germanic languages, e.g. Old Norse synd, or German Süünde. The word may derive, ultimately, from *es-, one of the Indo-European roots that meant "to be," and is a present participle, "being."
Latin, also has an old present participle of esse in the word sons, sont-, which came to mean "guilty" in Latin. The root meaning would appear to be, "it is true;" that is, "the charge has been proven." The Greek word hamartia is often translated as sin in the New Testament; it means "to
miss the mark" or "to miss the target".
Jewish views of sin
Judaism regards the violation of divine commandments to be a sin. Judaism uses this term to include violations of Jewish law that are not necessarily a lapse in morality. Judaism holds that all people sin at various points in their lives, and hold that God tempers justice with mercy.
The generic Hebrew word for any kind of sin is aveira. Based on verses in the Hebrew Bible, Judaism describes three levels of sin.
Pesha or Mered - An intentional sin; an action committed in deliberate defiance of God;
Ovon - This is a sin of lust or uncontrollable emotion. It is a sin done knowingly, but not done to defy God;
Cheit - This is an unintentional sin.
Judaism holds that no human being is perfect, and all people have sinned many times. However a state of sin does not condemn a person to damnation; only one or two truly grievous sins lead to anything approaching the Christian idea of hell...."
Ainea wrote: “...One other question and it is really the most important question you need to answer; not for me or others on this forum but for you.
Is the Bible the word of God and inerrant? “
Response: As what regards your question if I believe the Bible to be the word of God, I believe the Bible to contain a lot of God inspired content including God directly dictated text, however, divine authorship & divine imprimatur is NOT applicable to the entire Sacred Scripture text as
we know it in today’s Bibles. The Bible didn’t fall out of Heaven fully written in English, bound in Moroccan leather, gilt edged & with annotated margins. As a matter of fact, when the different so called books that make up the Old & New Testaments were being collected together
to be compiled to form the Bible, there was a great amount of heated disagreement as to which books were to be included in the Bible & which were to be left out. Tod this day, the many different sects of Christianity still do not agree as to which contents should or should not be
contained in the Bible.
As what regards the inerrancy of the Bible, the following example proves that the Bible does contain inaccurate data, therefore, it is not inerrant.
Matthew writes that Jesus said that the mustard seed was the smallest of seeds. From the NASB, the following quote:
“...He presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field;Matt 13:32 and this is smaller than all other seeds, but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants and
becomes a tree, so that THE BIRDS OF THE AIR come and NEST IN ITS
BRANCHES."
It is a botanical scientific fact that orchids have seeds that are far smaller than mustard seeds.
However, if you wish to obviate my word, then, I refer you to
http://www.bibletexts.com/qa/qa081.htm :
“...The United Bible Society's Fauna and Flora of the Bible (NY: UBS, 1980, pages 145-146) writes:
The seed described in the parable of Jesus as 'the smallest of all seeds' is considered by most translators to be the common black mustard seed, Brassica nigra.
Brassica nigra is now an annual garden herb, but in former days it grew wild in the fields of Palestine; the Jews sowed it in their fields and not in their gardens (Mt 13.31……).
In our day the seeds of mustard, which are contained in linear pods, are not considered to be the smallest of all seeds (a distinction held by the orchid). But in the days of Jesus the smallest quantity of something was proverbially compared with 'a mustard seed' (Mt 17.20)...
The mustard plant does not usually grow as tall as a tree, but travellers relate that they have passed through mustard fields in which all the plants exceeded the height of a man, and where birds were actually sheltering in the 'branches'. The stem of the mustard plant may be as thick as a man's arm.
The description of it as a 'tree' in the parable is, therefore, not misleading.
Some commentator have suggested that the seed mentioned in the parable was not that of the black mustard, but of a different plant, Salvadora persica. But this is found in the valleys of the Jordan river, not in the fields. Moreover, its seeds are too large to fit the description given in the Gospels.
The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Volume 3 (pages 476-477), adds:
If the text must be rendered "make nests in its branches" (so RSV), the exaggeration would be immediately apparent to even the common man. Botanists avoid this problem by insisting that the verb translated "make nests" means only "settle upon" or "light upon" (cf. Amer. Trans. "roost"),
referring only to small birds. The apparent allusion to Dan. 4:11-12, 20-21, seems to support the RSV translation, in which case the only solution is to take the expression as hyperbole (cf. Matt. 17:20...”
Ainea wrote: “...Ptolemy, you have filled post after post on the Torah...” & in a previous post: “...You say: “...If you can't get past the Torah then I will simply lock this thread and any other thread you start unless you start answering some questions. This message board is not your pulpit...”
Response: It is you & the other administrator who quote passages which you allege are proof positive of God’s prohibiting homosexual relations from the Torah’s Leviticus & Deuteronomy, I merely respond as is to be expected in a cyber forum where the posting of data & the exchange of
opinions is customary modus operandi.
In your website’s register area it states: “...Jesus Christ Forums is a Christian forum, however, we do have members of other faiths as well as those unaligned with any faith posting here therefore please keep this in mind when you post. Posters are expected to read, follow, and accept the following rules in all posts entered in any Jesus Christ Forum...
How come on this web site’s page located at http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/views/sin.php the same passage, although it says “paraphrased” it has been changed to read as follows?
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a man caught in homosexuality and when they had set him in the midst,
They say unto him, "Master, this man was taken in homosexuality,
in the very act, Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned to death: but what sayest thou?"
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.
But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground,
as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at him". And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the man standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the man,
he said unto him, "Man, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee"? He said, "No man, Lord." And Jesus said unto him, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more!”
This is a blatant revision of what the Biblical text actually says. It is dishonest & misleading.
The online NASB version has John 8: 3-11 stating the following:
“...John 8:3 The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4 they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 "Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women*; what then do You say?" 6 They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 But when they persisted in asking
Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are
they? Did no one condemn you?" John 11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”
*It is interesting to note the injustice of the patriarchal mind set of the ancient Jews in the specific incident about the woman caught in adultry in that they state that such a woman was to be stoned to death but choose to not mention the man with whom she committed adultry much less demand his death by stoning as well.
In closing, those who use misinterpretations based on mistranslations of Bible text to practice SPIRITUAL TERRORISM on the homosexual community will have a lot to answer to God on Judgment Day.
Now, you can close any thread you like & you can ban me from this forum or you can choose to face me & contest my allegationswith your own point of view. If you choose to close threads or to ban me, it will only betray to everyone who reads these forums your inability to deal with opposing points of view & your Holy Inquisition type tactics at gagging & getting rid of opposing opinions.