Hello there for the last time my friend, after this your heart is pretty much permanently hardened, and NO, I’m not trying to worm my way out of your posts.
alifaia wrote:Omega : hi... how's work???
If only you knew! I took the day off today to take time to respond to you the last time and also because I am ill at the moment. Unlike you my friend I do not premeditate for my responses neither do I use Copy and Paste commentaries by others because of fear that the post cannot be refuted. I will point out to you every time the Enemy and His demons put thoughts into your head by using this Symbol here:>*<
And as for my work it is closing down and this very moment and now all the people in my office must do job searching as fo the time being, I am confident that the Lord will provide for me and my necessities without fear nor worry because My Complete and Total Trust is in Him and not man.
BTW, Nice cut and paste Job Alewife! Try putting them in your own words instead of cutting and pasting entire manuscripts. I don’t have to cut and paste to try and worm my way out of your simple questions. I'm sure you will be fairy disappointed if I did the same, but that is not the case, You see I rely upon the Holy Spirit to put words in my mouth and not some cunning serpent who puts thoughts into the mind of unbelievers by darting His tongue out. While were on the Subject of Tongue Darting take a look at this my friend:
Do you see How his tongue is pointed in Two Directions, such as with Satan who has His double edged sword of deceit which is a Travesty of the Double Edged sword that comes out of the mouth of Jesus the Word of God. And when you continue to allow yourself to be delivered into the foul and putrid mouth of the Serpent, the end result is that you will be devoured by His mouth, you see it is His tongue which is used to lead many astray and into the pit of His Belly my friend. But unfortunately your too blind to recognize this because of your pride which I will demonstrate further on in this post! Take a look here and enjoy!
You see the snake in the Grass or don't you???
alifaia wrote:well... belief in the trinity in not an absolute requirement to be a Christian... if it was then wouldn’t all the unitarians be doomed to hell despite their acceptance of Jesus??? prior to the council of nicea circa 325 AD... there were 2 paths... the Trinitarian and the unitarian... it was doe to this conflict that the 325 general assemble meeting was ordered by Constantine... and despite the fact that arius put down / refuted all the Trinitarian claims thru scripture Constantine supported the Trinitarian cause... donno if you are aware of this.... anyways... the point is wether Jesus was god or not is secondary... the main or rather the only clause to be a Christian is to accept that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. I assume all christians whatever be their denominations believe in this...
trinity cannot be explained. not by you not by the pope.. not by anybody.. you know there is a reason why its called the divine mystery... it is part of faith only... and when the defining criteria is faith only ... well then there can be no debate.. no questions... no answers... faith is unquestionable unanswerable... matters of the heart can never be defined. and this I completely understand. hence the phrase "To you yours and to me mine" ... as for the hardening of my heart... welll I wont agree completely... actually the word I would choose is conviction... I am convinced that this is not wholly right while that is . and this is not thru the heart... it is a matter of years of analysis and study and reflection... True there are no guarantees in Islam but thats the beauty of it. the uncertanity... the unknown.. which is the driving force ... the motivating force to push man to do good. Where as in Christianity there is nothing that motivates a man to do good to his fellow man. no one asks one to do good... its only said ... be good and good will automatically come out of you for others... well it does sound all hunky-dorry and nice and all that... but is this pratical? not really... the praticallity of such a statement is ... well ... there isnt any. human nature is such that he will not do much on his own for his fellow man.. well he may give some pocket change to the begger at the corner... and this will be the end of his genorisity... do you know why? because he has already been forgiven his transgressions thru the blood of Christ.... technically speaking he does not have to do anything... no one is asking him to do anything... everyone is relying on his own initiative to do good only because he would choose to... and invariably satan will tempt this re-born and invariably satan will succed in convincing this man not to share his good fortune.
Just think about it... you are told "peace dude... you are now saved. .. you will meet Jesus and God etc... " and then maybe in your euphoric mental state you might even hand out a couple of bucks or treat a misfortunate one to a 7 course meal... but satan will be there right behind you ... poking 24x7... "Dude... you worked hard day and night for that money... are you just gonna give it away to some bum who will eventually spend it on booze n hookers??? don’t do it man.... keep the money... tomorrow you can donate it to the church" but when tomorrow comes so too comes the poking... "Dude.... you are going to give that money to the church??? didnt you always wanted to buy that playstation2???? when will come your time??? you are always helping out others... when is your time gonna come... no man.. take a stand... indulge yoursself" or "Dude... that 2 dollars wont help the church... you are better off giving it to some poor begger" and 99% of the time the person will give in. this is the practical life... this is what is happening...
hmm... once again ... off topic... *sigh*.... I need a smoke....
..>*<
At the time of Judahs return from their captivity, some of them had married with the Edomites and resulting in the priesthood being polluted with false doctrine Which resulted in separation and thus we have the pharisees and the Sadducees. This division between these two false sects had disagreements and would come between the Unitarians of Arius who was the presbyter at the church in Alexandria. He opposed the Doctrine of
the Trinity and made mention that God was not always the Father and Jesus was not always the Son which clearly goes against Sound biblical
doctrine. The Council of Nicaea had condemned this type of teaching and so did the Council of Constantinople. Laelius and Faustus Socinus had the
founded their own theological belief that had disregarded the Deity of Christ which only further strengthened the Unitariansts belief. So as we can clearly see here that Satan has crept into the Church and has indoctrinated false teachings within it by planting evil seeds. Unitarianism is a satanic doctrine and is a seed planted from the enemy as I will show you by use of Scripture if your willing to accept it:
He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. Matthew 13:37-40
The Catholic Church believes that Jesus died for their sins, that s not the point, take a look here within Scripture regarding the Catholic Church and how it is corrupted and under a Curse:
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (Which is not another); but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-9 Key words"WHICH IS NOT ANOTHER" The Greek word used here is
heteron which means another of a different kind, so as you can see that is a perfect example of other denominations that preach a gospel of another kind such as with Unitarianism and Jehovahs witnessess!
Alifai you speak about conviction and yet you yourself cannot be convicted, who or what is responsible for conviction and who or what gives understanding of Scripture and reveals the The Guilt of the heart so that it recognizes its error and therefore drawing men to God through Christ. Lets take a look here for example:
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:7-11 Do the Muslims follow this example which Jesus had set forth to all the Hypocrites who are guilty of sin! Even the Pharisees were convicted here and that is a shame on the part of Muslims that they being justified by works and deeds when you yourself are filled with dead mens bones and all hypocrisy! The Heart is not responsible for conviction you say? Lets see what the Scriptures say:
Matthew 15:19 - For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: Romans 10:10 -For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
A person is not saved merely because his mouth confesses as we can see here by the above Scriptures that explain that evil thoughts proceed from within the Heart and comes out of the mouth. But rather that The mouth testifies readily that the Grace of God in Christ which has been received by faith through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit so that give it may give the Heart understanding. This must enter through the heart in order to be convicted of sin and guilt and achieve understanding of the Spiritual nature. Furthermore you are missing the point ENTIRELY! I had stated in my earlier post that Salvation is not obtained by works unlike the Quran that believes that entrance into paradise is through good works and deeds. Salvation through the Blood of Christ in now ways nullify the duty of performing Good Works or Deeds and I will explain why!
A True Child of God who receives Salvation and has their transgressions forgiven is Grateful for what Christ has done for them by paying their penalty in FULL, Such will result in sincere Gratitude from the Believer and will demonstrate it naturally by doing good deeds and works, do you understand this my friend??? Take a look here as to why our good deeds must be shown so that others may see it, take note that if one performs good works just to be seen of men have no reward, but their rewards is merely superficial as seen here in this verse: Matthew 6:2 - Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. So The True Genuine Child of God who is Grateful for His pardon of sins will perform Good works not hypocritically like the Pharisees but in Truth and Love!
See here:
Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. The Believers purpose here is to Glorify God in Christ so that others may see the light of Christ shining within them and in turn will seek to find the Source of that light which is readily available through Christs Blood which was shed on the Cross!
Alewife you can enjoy your Playstation and take smoke breaks in between games, but I can assure you that all the effort your putting into your so-called good works will not inherit everlasting life. And in regards to Satan poking me, thanks for the laughs. He may be poking me but I can assure you that it Tickles! (
)
(
) When you die my friend and awaken out of your slumber you will stand before the Throne of Almighty God and Christ will be seated upon it and He will condemn you because you condemn all His Children to Hellfire with your fictional fairy tale book called the Quran! Alewife I have Explained the Trinity in its simplest form and I find it Utterly Amazing that you understood none of it, if that is the case then I will no longer waste my time with you because no matter what I say and how I explain it to you even in the simplest form whereby a 3rd grader can understand it, why do I even bother and how did we get from Demonic possession to the Trinity? Do you see how you got sidetracked and now back to the Subject at hand because the Enemy is attempting to sidetrack me and throw me off Guard by your words also by His thoughts implanted in your head. Did you Enjoy your SMOKE? I serve the Lord to Glorify Him and not to Glorify myself as some do, whether you think that you have won in a debate with me or not makes no difference to me, and why? Because such is where pride steps in, and even if you believe that you won, YOU LOSE! Do not be deceive my friend. What decision will a wise man make? Waste time to one who cannot seem to comprehend the Trinity and responds with VAIN manmade philosophies and commentaries that lead in ENDLESS CIRCLES, or continue on in humility to those who desperately need to hear this precious message of the Gospel. Sorry no can do Satan, nice try!
>*<
My entire hand and fingers were numb by the enemy and as why you found it funny??? (
)
alifaias Cut and paste Matthew Henry's Commentary! wrote:This is the commentary for Gen 1:26-28 taken from Mathew Henrys books....
Quote:
I. That man was made last of all the creatures, that it might not be suspected that he had been, any way, a helper to God in the creation of the world: that question must be for ever humbling and mortifying to him, Where wast thou, or any of thy kind, when I laid the foundations of the earth? Job xxxviii. 4. Yet it was both an honour and a favour to him that he was made last: an honour, for the method of the creation was to advance from that which was less perfect to that which was more so; and a favour, for it was not fit he should be lodged in the palace designed for him till it was completely fitted up and furnished for his reception. Man, as soon as he was made, had the whole visible creation before him, both to contemplate and to take the comfort of. Man was made the same day that the beasts were, because his body was made of the same earth with theirs; and, while he is in the body, he inhabits the same earth with them. God forbid that by indulging the body and the desires of it we should make ourselves like the beasts that perish!
I have read it thoroughly and do not see what your point is my friend are you confused? And I'm not going to take up space with the entire commentary you pasted!
alifaia wrote:I do understand this verse... but I doubt the meaning I get will be the same as what you get... I understand this verse and other such "Are ONE" verses to be on a different plain of existence... a mystical meaning.. an abstract meaning.. a spiritual meaning.. a metaphorical meaning... but definately not a physical meaning. (BTW physical is not the same physical as what you and I understand... eg.. a soul is one physical non-solid entity... )
that they may be one , even as we are one... in a metaphorical sense... this is my understanding..
Did you know that Jesus always spoke in mystical words.. parables.. stories with inner meanings... would you agree that such words have different meanings for different earth bound humans. eg.. Moses never spoke in a mystical way... all his words were clear cut... to the point .. and precise... no chance of dilly-dallying anywhere... no chance of misinterpretation... I mean how much more explanation is needed to understand "Thou shall not covet thy neighbours wife" ... however OTOH.. Jesus never actually gave a clear cut answer to any question... no straight to the point precise answers... all his answers were .... vague ... subject to interpretation... hence the diversification of the church very early in time... mainly due to doctrinal reasons... different people understood differently... its like the TOmato toMAto phrase...and the deciding factor here is faith... just faith. nothing else. "Coz I said so" . no other explanation... I mean c'mon it took 300 odd years to decide between the unitarians and the trinitarians. and both of them have the same book.. same words... same God.. same Jesus etc... but totally different explanations ... TOmato-toMAto.
Did you know that Jesus always spoke in mystical words.. parables.. stories with inner meanings... would you agree that such words have different meanings for different
earth bound humans?
WOW! are we following posts here? You are the earthbound man not me, I am filled with the Spirit of God that lives within me. Those who fail to understand the Nature of the Spirit because of the Crystallization of their hearts will soon be HELL BOUND! Do you understand this? And as in regards to the Unitarians and Trinitarians I Have already explained it above.
TOmato-toMAto, is that what you said? And in regards to the Quran here is my example:
GARbage-garBAGE! Do you like that? Not trying to offend you but that is my personal belief and since you are well on your way to permanent hardness of your heart it wouldn't make any difference what word choice I used.
alifaia wrote:yes I understand the divine purpose, the creation, etc... its just the triune aspect I cant get over. you eternal and then you say 3. 3 eternals, 3 absolutes, 3 infinites... sorry... I dot get it... maybe its as you said... my heart is hardened to this "fact" but as I said earlier... belief in trinity is not a deciding / core requirement to be a Christian.
Of course you don't get it! I explained it many times over and now for the final time I will use Scripture to point out as to why and lets see if you even understand SCRIPTURE:
1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man (receiveth not)the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because {they are spiritually discerned}.
Do you get this verse??? I almost lost my entire post!
Belief in trinity is not a deciding / core requirement to be a Christian? LETS SEE for ourselves!!!
John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Key Words"I AM HE" Who is the Messiah? The Messiah is God and all the Scribes Pharisees, High priest and elders knew that the Scriptures pointed to the Fact that the Messiah is to be God Incarnate, want proof?
Here:
Matthew 26:63 - But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Firstly we must recognize that Son of God literally means "GOD THE SON" to the Jews and thou has said literally means you yourself had said it. God the Son is no difference than Son of God which clearly shows equality with God the Father, which was why they accused Jesus of Blasphemy! Do you understand this my friend? Of course not and why bother to ask? hmmm....
alifaia wrote:correct. not once is there any mention of a truine nature to God. however only after Jesus "died" did the triune nature of God come out. don’t you feel a bit suspicious??? I mean all along Jesus mentioned maximum 2. Himself and God... and even then he never called himself a divine being. but as a lower status person to the Divine Being. Lower than his own disciples... his followers... Yet after his "death" he is automatically upgraded to divine status along with the comforter which as far as my biblical knowledge goes never got equated with divinity in a godly sense. If only Jesus had said something clear cut indicating a 3=1 equation ............. I think there would have not been any confusion.... at all. You know ... sometimes I wonder... at one place God says He is not a god of confusion... yet His own nature according to Christianity is of confusing nature. don’t you feel even the least bit suspicious??
Your waaaaaayyyyy off! You mentioned that the Triune formula came into existence after Jesus died, correct? Well lets see how they came up with the Triune Formula, firstly I will start of with Scripture:
Matthew 11:27 - All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. At the moment one is indwelled with The Holy Spirit and Christ dwells within their heart, They are given Divine Revelation whereby the Spirit of God reveals the nature of the Son and His unique Relationship with the Father and that is one of the reasons why Muslims ponder the age old question of the Triune Formula! They neither have the Holy Spirit nor Christ within their hearts to reveal such Truth , firstly is because they do not Accept that Christ was Crucified and Died for their sins and Rose again victoriously the Third day, let me guess it’s a parable?
It is written:
Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Do you believe this my friend? Of course not! There’s your answer! and what did I explain to your cohort alimustafakhan in my previous post in which you obviously didn't did not take note of, lets see for ourselves!
alimustafakhan wrote:
1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one in purpose of bearing record.
become this...
1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Omega wrote:The Bible itself Is self-explanatory friend: 2 Peter 1:21 - For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
ALL Scripture were written by Holy men of God approximately 40 of them in total and they were all moved by the Holy Spirit that was indwelled within them. This in no way denies the personality of the writers or authors or their distinct styles. Jesus said that The Holy Spirit will bring all things to rememberance whatsoever He has taught them, lets see for ourselves: John 14:26 - But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, (he shall teach you all things), and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
The Holy Spirit controlled the process of bringing things to the author or writers memories, the change in wording in no way denies the Truth of the Bible and its doctrinal teachings because both of them are explained and interpreted by the Holy Ghost!
alifaia wrote:Fact is the americas didnt exist for the european/african/asian people. until columbus. fact is preachers didnt reach the shores of america until columbus. fact is a person is doomed to eternal hell if he/she doesnt accept Jesus. As for the question of responsibility bit... no.. God is not responsible. Since my defination of God includes total justice... these people are not doomed... even tho they are misguided... they do have a fighting chance. my belief is prophets have been sent to all corners of the earth. the divine message has been proclaimed to all. if anyone today says he was ignorant of the message... he lies. ... maybe before the days of mass communications and telephones etc... it was different. judgment would be based on different criteria... than what it is today. my personal belief is everyone has a fighting chance of getting thru the gates. well maybe except the atheists. but every theist (hindu,muslim,christian,buddhist,jew,etc) they all have a chance. if they didnt then it will be unjust of God's part.
this whole mayan and inca business is not even remotely related to the main topic... I know ... I brought it up.... sometimes I get carried away... what do you say??? lets put this in a thread of its own? because at this moment the whole thing is completely unrelated to the topic... viz. "the false prophet....
Since my defination of God includes total justice... these people are not doomed...
even tho they are misguided... they do have a fighting chance
Misguided? Why don't you say the same about the Satanists? So those who are deceived by Satan into believing that He is the True God and Jesus is Evil what happens then? Not Misguided my friend but DECEIVED!!!
Deception occurs because the heart permits it to:
Ephesians 5:6 - Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. You have an acute migraine and desire to choose between to brands of Aspirin, However the ingredients differ and their Formula are not the same. You pop one aspirin
A into your mouth and wait a while and soon realize that your headache has not subsided. You then take a look at the formula that make up the aspirin
[B.A.[/b] and notice that it is missing a vital ingredient that aspirin
[b.b.[/b] has. It is then you realize that you have taken the wrong aspirin for your headache and pop the other pill in your mouth and it enters into your belly and you immediately recover from your headache by taking aspirin
[b.b.[/b] Aspirin
[b.A. [/b]says that it will cure headaches and aspirin
[b.b.[/b] says that Will cure Migraine Headaches do to its Advanced Formula which is not found in the other Aspirin. You then realize that the side effects of Aspirin A Is palpitations of the Heart, so my friend were you misguided or deceived???
alewife wrote:Omega... this is the exact same explanation I have been given to my claims of biblical corruption. as for the believing Christians of pre-Uranic era... well... the word believing answers it. they were believing. they were true God-fearing people...
check this out
Sure 18 : The Cave
018.009
ACEPHALA: Or dost thou reflect that the Companions of the Cave and of the Inscription were wonders among Our Sign?
PICKTHAL: Or deemest thou that the People of the Cave and the Inscription are a wonder among Our portents?
SHAKIR: Or, do you think that the Fellows of the Cave and the Inscription were of Our wonderful signs?
018.010
ACEPHALA: Behold, the youths betook themselves to the Cave: they said, "Our Lord! bestow on us Mercy from Thyself, and dispose of our affair for us in the right way!"
PICKTHAL: When the young men fled for refuge to the Cave and said: Our Lord! Give us mercy from Thy presence, and shape for us right conduct in our plight.
SHAKIR: When the youths sought refuge in the cave, they said: Our Lord! grant us mercy from Thee, and provide for us a right course in our affair.
Commentary:
"In order to test the Holy Prophet the pagans of Makka sent three men to Najran so that they might learn a few unknown episodes from the Jew scholars and confront him with them. They returned with the story of the "seven sleepers in the cave", and when the Holy Prophet was asked to narrate their story these verses were revealed ."
The Quran, as usual, lays stress on the moral lessons of the story, and not on the exact identification of the persons concerned. The Holy Prophet not only told them the main story but pointed out the variations that were current, and admonished them for disputing about such details. The story is treated as a parable, containing spiritual lessons of the highest value. The ashab ul kahf (the dwellers of the cave) were seven young Christian men who lived in Ephesus, a city on the west coast of Asia Minor. They lived in a society which was completely idolatrous, although they themselves were believers in only one God, as the true followers of Prophet Isa. The city in which they lived was under the rule of the Roman emperor Decius who ruled from 249 to 251 A.D. Decius was a tyrant, and an idol-worshipper. All those who lived under his rule were forced to worship the idols. He issued an order saying that any citizen who refused to worship the idols was a traitor and was condemned to death. Soon the seven young men-the ashab ul kahf-realised that they were the only persons left who refrained from worshipping the idols. This forced them to re-evaluate their situation: either give in to the majority pressure to worship idols, or refuse and be killed. None of these alternatives seemed favourable. Man must not jeopardise his life but should take all precautions to save it because it is a trust, and then leave the matter to the will of Allah. Therefore, they decided to leave the city and seek refuge elsewhere, away from the reach of the tyrant emperor. So they left the city. Outside the city, a dog named Qatmir joined them. They went towards the hills and finally found a cave for themselves. They prayed for Allah's help, and Allah made them sleep for about 300 years. A party of investigators, headed by a minister of the emperor came to the cave. The minister, who went inside the cave and found them sleeping, was a believer, so he told the emperor that they were dead. The cave was closed and a tablet (raqim) whereon were inscribed the names of the ashab ul kahf, their religion, and what it was from which they fled was put upon the entrance of the cave. The cave is said to be in Damascus. Even today the pilgrims who call upon the shrine of Bibi Zaynab, pay a visit to this cave.
They were raised up in the reign of Theodosius 11 (408 to 450 A.D.), who was a Christian. It is written in Hastings "Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics" that the cave was reopened when Allah suggested to Adolius, the proprietor of the field where the cave is, to build a sheepfold for his flock; for this purpose the workmen used the stones which closed the entrance of the cave. The long period of 300 years seemed to the ashab ul kahf, as if only a day or two passed by, or even less. So our ideas of time are fallacious. The Almighty Lord controls time and space. Even an animal who associated itself with the godly servants of Allah was rewarded. This event is an example of Allah's power to resurrect all human beings after their death on the day of judgement.
There is another version in which it is stated that when the ashab ul kahf came out of sleep they found the mouth of the cave closed.
One of them said: "O my Lord, once I hired a man to work for me for one full day, but he finished the work in half a day and left without taking the payment. With the amount payable to him I bought a calf. Soon it multiplied into a herd. It so happened that one day he came to see me. I told him what had happened. He did not believe. I swore in Your name and gave the whole flock to him. I did it in Your name and for Your sake. Please open the cave."
One third portion of the cave opened. Another from them said: "O my Lord, a beautiful woman came to me for some food when there was a widespread famine in our land. I desired her very much as soon as I saw her beauty but she refused to yield to my carnal passion and went away. She came to me again and again but every time I put the same proposal to her. At last she agreed. When I held her in my arms I felt she was violently trembling. To my question she said she was trembling in fear of God. I at once freed her and gave her the provision she asked for. I did it to obtain Your pleasure. I wept and sought Your forgiveness. Now I beseech You to open the cave."
Now the two third portion of the cave was open. Another from them said: "O my Lord, once I brought some milk for my parents, but found them asleep. I did not want to disturb them. So I waited beside them. The whole night passed and my flock of sheep perished in the field as I could not attend to them. In the morning my parents awoke and drank the milk. I did it to please You, O my l.ord; so open the cave."
Now the whole cave lay open before them. Whatever is stated about the ashab ul kahf is a miracle of Allah. He is able to do all things. No one has yet found the bodies of ashab ul kahf who are said to be still sleeping. Allah has kept them invisible as He has kept Isa, Khizr, Idris and the living Imam Al Qa-im hidden from the sight of all people.
YADDA YADDA! and More non-sensical commentaries, where are yours???
I have responded with commentaries with own words alewife, I don't rely upon the commentaries of man but rely on Revelation of The Holy Spirit who brings to me absolute Truth and to those who have the Holy Spirit!
There is another version in which it is stated that when the ashab ul kahf came out of sleep they found the mouth of the cave closed. Another Version? Sad to say the least, even fictional writers can conure up better lies than that. That Doesn't prove anything to me because in my own words and I'm tired of saying it over and over again, THE QURAN IS BOGUS!!! And is cunningly put together by the Council of Demons who were the editors if this fairy tale Novel and authored by The False Prophet who is only trying to Glorify Satan!
alifaia wrote:Yes and no. it all depends. If He so wishes He will...else He wont... bottom line it all depends on the person. meaning works/deeds... My friend just by going around saying "I worship you God, I worship you God, I worship you God" doesn’t make the person pass thru the gates... God will ask..."fine you worshiped Me... but what have you done for your fellow man???? You worshiped Me so I made you very rich... but what have you done for your people???"
Do you realize how that sounds? First you said that just because one says that "I worship you God" will not gain Him access into Heaven. So why would Allah say " fine you worshiped Me" Does he know what Lip service is, and that the man did not Truly worship him? So why would Allah say
fine you worshiped Me?
That clearly is honoring god with their mouths. What does worship mean? it comes from the conjunction of these two Words:"Worthy" and "Ship" Now tell me did that man who has done no good works nor deeds show Allahs Worthy ship in his performance or did here merely express it in his words? Allah seems to be blind here, sorry I tried not to laugh but
So these are YOUR COMMENTARIES?
Lets see the God I worship:
Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Luke 11:17 - But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
alifaia wrote:Tell me this... mere seconds before Eve decided to eat the fruit... just before the serpent slithered towards her... was she sinless? even if she existed for just a few hours... and what about Adam??? was he sinless? was he perfect? After all didn’t you say Adam was created in the image of God??? in any case... when was the very first time they sinned?? Eve?? when did she commit her first sin? was it just before she touched and broke off the fruit from the tree? or after she ate it? My understanding... she committed her first sin not when she ate the fruit. but when she streched out her hand for that apple. gaining knowledge from the apple was just a consequence... this was not the sin. the sin was disobeying a direct order from God. God said don’t approach the tree. She did. Sin 1. However the events that follow this... I don’t agree with... i.ee she taking the apple and telling Adam to eat it etc... you and your wife are the only humans on earth. you are just created. what are the possibilities that you will let your wife roam around alone unaccompanied???? zip. I believe Adam and Eve were together when the fruit thingie happened.
So... mere seconds before they reachout to touch the fruit... were they sin free? sin less??? Plz don’t say they had the potential to sin so they still are sinners before and after.... because you need to remember that they were just created maybe hours ago or days ago... that is immaterial... but they were just made... by whom? God. The Perfect. The Absolute. etc...
So either God made them imperfect intentionally or (God forgive me) He didn’t know how to do His job. Which one is it???
Another question : You said that God is all pure and all holy etc... tell me... who created satan? or did satan always exist? i.e. eternal??? how was satan able to attempt the take over of God's throne as you put it?
I knew you were going to say that, show me in the Bible where it says that Adam Eve were perfect, Just because one is made in the image of God does not mean that they are perfect, the angels were made in the image of God and yet Satan rebelled because of His Pride. Once again you have not thoroughly red my posts carefully. Did you see where I mentioned where Lust and Pride originated? By saying that Adam and Eve is perfect because they were made in the image and likeness of God is like saying that God is Capable of sin! Which BTW is impossible! The Terms Image and Likeness are used synonymously, and refers man spiritual resemblance morally and rationally to His Creator, it does not refer to man being Perfect like God. Man was Created in the Image and Likeness of God. An image is a representation or replica of the one person or thing by another. An Image may be similar but not necessarily identical to its original, is that so hard to understand. And as I mentioned earlier in my previous post that one of the meanings of Image is to be one as God is one in Father, Son and Spirit! Let us take a look at this Scripture here:
Romans 8:29 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the (image) of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
alifaia wrote:Dude... you need to come out a bit ... try to get a wider angle of the picture... you are limiting yourself... this is the way I see it
Good and Evil and its origin.
Everything is created by God. Good and evil. everything. no exceptions. you and I cannot create. we can convert, discover, etc... but never create. create is when something comes from nothing and it is done voluntarily. the closest we come to creation is the thought process... people say we create thought. but if you study some neurology you will see that the actual electrical impulese in the brain etc happen even before we think. the signals happen and then we think. meaning even these thoughts source are involuntary causes resulting in the thought effect... I know this is kinda difficult to understand... but ......
So.... God is perfect. Obviously He will create a perfect world... right? now.. in a perfect world will the creation have free will?? ofcourse... coz if the creation had no free will then it really wouldn’t be perfect.. it would be more like a dictatorship... wouldn’t you say so?? But if a choice is there then wouldn’t there be a good choice and a bad choice??? think about it. First of all... how do you define good and evil??? eg Adam and Eve... was the eating of the fruit evil or was it the reaching out and thus breaking the first law made? God said don’t do it. She chose to do it. and then she did it. so will she be punished for chosing to do it or for doing it??? remember.. the rule is don’t do it. but to do it you first need to choose. yes or no. do it or don’t do it. to do or not to do .... that is the question. ( I love shakespere) So the choice was the sin... and the action ie doing it was the ending or completion of that sin. the final confirmation...
so... if God created all the world and choice... then He also created good and evil. satan chose to be evil. Eve chose to eat the fruit. blah blah blah. and when the act is actually completed thats when the sin is completed and confirmed and counted as a negative point in ones book of deeds.
God didn’t create false religions. you and I peverted His original message. we chose to do it. man changed it. but man is not alone in this. satan is forever poking / whispering to do it. satan as you know is mans sworn enemy. and he will forever tempt man. if man wishes to remain good he will need to not listen to satan. its all a matter of choice.
Have you ever read any article on Divine destiny v/s freedom of choice debates??? try some... makes some real interesting thought provoking reading. >*<
So I'm limiting yourself right? I always say this and I will say it again although it may not be fully comprehended by you:There is a huge difference between a open mind and a closed heart. Well the Closed heart can be fine as long as it is sealed by the Holy Spirit of God.
Have I ever read any article on Divine destiny v/s freedom of choice debates??? no! And I'm not going to As you say that it might be thought provoking reading it, hmmm.........Shakespeare and The Bible certainly Go hand in hand I must say! :roll: :roll: :roll: Minus will compare Dantes Inferno with it also!
alifaia wrote:Yes you are right. my heart is hardened to a point of no return. statements such as yours and our other Christian and non-Christian brothers have convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am on the right path. interestingly have you ever considered that thought that the very same above quote can be applied to you as well?? You too have been hardened in heart to Islam by the demons who non-stop put responses in your head to my posts...
You have then sealed your fate my friend and now by your own words have confessed with your mouth and believed in your heart that the Quran is the Word of God, there is your stamp of approval. Your permanent Hardness of your heart is the same as receiving the Mark of the Beast, because with both, you’re a Slave to SATAN!
alifaia wrote:anyways ... lets just get back on track... could you plz provide any Christian reference where satan squeezes people ...
Thanks...
PS... no offence dude... if I have said anything which might have offended you , I apologize...
Peace
Ali
Alifaia, I have done my best to present this message of Truth and there is Nothing more that can be done so I leave your hardened Heart. But I will tell you now that you will stand before the True God and He will condemn you to Eternal Fire because you made a mockery of His Word by the Quran. I spake to you out of concern that you may obtain Salvation through the Blood of Christ and that is the first reason as to why I made this post knowing that you would respond. I have done my part and am finished. Take Care and minus will live life to its fullest here because in the hereafter there will be weeping and gnashing of your teeth!
Revelation 13:10 - He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
God Bless!