Aineo wrote: “...Gay theology and gay apologists have built an entire theological stance around what the Bible does not teach, which is an argument from silence. ..”
Response: Interestingly, although Jesus never uttered a word against homosexuality many a homophobic theological stance has been built around His silence.
Aineo wrote: “...You have posted bad information about Koine and Hebrew; the languages are in no way similar. In fact Greek is a more precise language the Hebrew or Aramaic...”
Response: Hmmm, there seems to be a reading comprehension problem here, although, not on my part. I made no statement regarding similarity between Aramaic & koine? If so, where?
Actually, Hebrew & Greek are not related linguistically. See http://grzegorj.w.interia.pl/lingwen/iesem1.html: "...There was time in the science when it be thought quite seriously that the first proto-language –– or the language from which all the others originated –– was Hebrew. A specific reminiscence of that view is the opinion that a special close genetic relation exists between Indo-European (IE) and Semitic languages. Such a view can still be found in some works. Newer investigations suggest very strongly that that view is not correct and that those previously demonstrated similarities of both language families are the result of the connections between them during over thousands of years rather than of their common origin. Nevertheless those similarities are odd, and the circumstances of their development are not clear in all respects...”
Also, Ancient Hebrew, had a vocabulary of only approximately 30,000 words while koine had a 300,000 word vocabulary. See http://www.truluck.com/html/hebrew___greek.html.
Aineo worte: “...The term homosexual was coined, not by a doctor but by a German journalist who was attempting to differentiate gay men from pedophiles (pederasts). A psychiatrist later co- opted the term to describe a pathological, treatable condition. The true information can be found
in the online gay dictionary...”
Response: Regardless of Karl-Maria Benkert aka Karl-Maria Kertbeny profession, he coined the word “homosexual” which later crept into mistranslations of the Bible such as in the case of the Greek word “arsenokoites” which most scholars of Biblical language agree
refers to male prostitution.
The following quote regarding “arsenoikoites” relation to male prostitution s from http://www.welcome-committee.org/chapter-blosser-2.html :
“...Arsenokoites is a rare word in both biblical and cultural literature, but when it does occur it provides important insight. It usually appears in lists of sins. These lists are not simply random lists of evil things; they usually have a clustering order to them, so that scholars, by studying these lists can learn a great deal about these sins by seeing how they are clustered together. In most lists there are sexual sins (adultery, rape, prostitution), sins involving violence (murder, maiming, physical abuse), and economic or justice sins (stealing, destruction of property, etc.). In these lists, arsenokoites does not appear with the sexual sins, but rather is clustered with the sins of exploitation and economic justice. There is a growing number of Biblical scholars who believe that arsenokoites refers to a very specific form of sexual exploitation and abuse that has no connection with same gender attraction as commonly experienced today.
One of the clearest expressions of this word comes from a Greek writing bout 100 years after Paul:
"...Do not accept a gift earned from doing unjust deeds, do not steal, do not betray information, do not arsenokoiten, do not oppress a poor man, pay the person who works for his wages, make provision for widows and orphans..." (Sibylline Oracle 2.70-77). arsenokoites appears in the middle of a list of economic sins, actions related to oppression and exploitation. This leads to the conclusion that arsenokoites specifically prohibits economic exploitation through sexual activity (prostitution, child abuse, child pornography, etc.) This conclusion is supported by the fact that later in the same letter, another paragraph contains a list of sexual sins: abortion, stealing the virginity of a young woman, promiscuity, adultery, etc.[11].
If arsenokoites was intended to condemn same gender sexual behavior, one would expect it to appear here, rather than with the economic sins. This is instructive in several ways: Same gender sexual activity can be oppressive and exploitative just as heterosexual activity can be abusive and sinful. Such abusive exploitation should always be condemned by the faith community...”
Webmaster wrote: “...So give us 1 example from the bible where it states or gives examples for male to male marriage or female to female marriage?”
Response: Marriage in Old Testament Hebrew culture, as in many other cultures of that & other times, including the present, was usually not a matter of mutual love between a man & a woman but, rather, a prearranged contract drawn up by third parties such as the parents of the couple stipulating rights, privileges & obligations related to financial & interpersonal matters, proprietorship of assets, etc.
I give you what you asked for: an example of a Biblical male to male marriage.
http://www.apostolicrestorationmission.4t.com/id27.htm :
“...1 Sam 18:3-4 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle. KJV...
...I Samuel 18:3-4 also tell us that Jonathan and David made a covenant, and that, to seal the covenant, Jonathan took off all the things he was wearing and gave them to David. The things he took off tell us a lot about the covenant itself. He took off his sword and bow and gave them to David, signifying that he intended to protect David. But it went further than that. By taking off all his clothes, he signified a much deeper and
more intense relationship. Had this not been the start of a physical, sexual relationship, Jonathan's actions would have been considered bizarre indeed, by the standards of their day, or ours.
1 Sam 18:21 And Saul said, I will give him her, that she may be a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be against him. Wherefore Saul said to David, Thou shalt this day be my son-in-law a second time. ASV
1 Sam 18:21 And Saul said, I will give him her, that she may be a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be against him. Wherefore Saul said to David, Thou shalt this day be my son in law in the one of the twain. KJV
Notice that "the one of" is in italics in the KJV. That means they are not found in the Hebrew text. In fact, they are not even hinted at in the Hebrew text. Adding them completely changed the meaning of the verse. Verse 21 proves that Jonathan and David's covenant was a marriage covenant, and that Saul recognized the marriage, since, beside
Michal, David had no marriage covenant with any of Saul's other children. Although he was supposed to marry Saul's daughter Merab, that never happened. Therefore, the only two of Saul's children he had covenants with were Jonathan and Michal. Just as a point of information, Hebrew has no word for "son-in-law". The Hebrew word used in the verse is a verb which means "to be related by marriage". Since Saul used the verb in connection with David's impending marriage to Michal, it is clear that the relationship he referred to was indeed son-in-law.
Also notice that King Saul didn't draw any distinction between David's marriage to Jonathan and his impending marriage to Michal. Although Saul didn't approve of the marriage between the two men, 1 Sam 20:30, he still recognized it as a marriage, and not just two men living together...”
The above quote came from the Apostolic Restoration Mission’s web site who in their own words state the following: “Welcome to the Apostolic Restoration Mission's web site.
Greetings in the wonderful, precious, Name of our only Lord and Savior, JESUS!
If you are looking for answers to understanding what the Bible Does and Doesn't say about homosexuality, this is the place for you!
This ministry has endeavored, seeking direction from the Lord, to open up His word in truth, and to dispel the myths that mainstream denominations have used to abuse and wound the gay community...”
The following words or variations thereof often form part of heterosexual marriage ceremonies:
“... for where you go, I will go, and where you lodge, I will lodge. Your people shall be my people, and your God, my God. 17 Where you die, I will die, and there I will be buried. Thus may God do to me, and worse, for death alone shall part us..."
Ironically, the above words were said by one woman, Ruth, to another, Naomi, in the Bible. See Ruth 1:16-18.
Webmaster wrote: “...But 1 of the 2 in the unnatural relationship is the arrhen making up the arsenokoites. Same in Lesbian relationships...”
Response: It is the height of heterosexual hubris & self-flattery to assume that homosexuality is a surrogate attempt to replicate heterosexual male to female reproductive & recreational sexual roles/functions. In their narcissistic arrogance, heterosexuals, deceive themselves into believing that all homosexuals, pay heterosexuality homage via penis-rectum sex, mimicking heterosexual role
playing of a male dominant (“inserter”)/passive female (“insertee”) through penis-vagina penetration.
Delusions of cosmic grandeur, indeed.
Many hyper masculine homosexual men are attracted to other hyper masculine men as well as hyper feminine females are attracted to same and engage in genito-genito sexual contact. As much as heterosexuals would like to think that the whole of creation shares their own ying-yang
fetish, they are sadly mistaken. As a matter of fact, anal sex is not universally practiced in the homosexual community nor is vaginal penetration using a phallic substitute the universal & obligatory sexual act between lesbians. The specific varieties of homosexual lovemaking other
than anal intercourse need not be discussed here, however, suffice it to say that homosexual lovemaking is extremely varied.