Liberate wrote:How do you reconcile this nation getting married, living for another 40 yrs, dying and being buried in Mecca.?
The same way how our Prophet said to his wives the one with the longest arm will die first. Turns out it meant the one who gave the most charity.
So this nation that is supposed to be the Son of Maryam, is somehow going to get married what is your analogy of countries getting married?
Countries living for another 40yrs?
Countries dying and being buried in Mecca next to Mohammed? <-- Is Mohammed a symbolic country too?
I think you are giving Mohammed's words more credit than the historical and theological context was worth, I have no doubt the vast majority of islam would find your interpretations just plain silly, why don't you accept what your religious books say? do you realise how mundane and superstitious it makes you look? and so must be rejected with all your might, even if you have to claim Ibn Kathir and all islamic scholars are wrong. You are moving against the tide, oil and water cannot mix, the hadiths we have shown you do not contradict the koran yet you dismiss them, misinterpret them, anything to face the inevitable. You realise with those hadiths Mohammed was taking muslims for fools.
Also he{Jesus} is suppose to ascend from the heaven on the wings of two angels(In islam the average size of angel is the size of the horizon in their true form with their wings) with water droping from his hair. So I guess this is literal to huh ? Try reading all the hadiths that speak of his second return, just dont pull some small portion of a topic you havent fully studied.
And yet in all this you continue being patronising, when it is you that contradicts the majority of the muslim ummah.
The statement is symbolic when read in light of ALL the hadeeths that mention his return. I have given you the reference to a book with all the collected available hadeeth in english that mention his second return.
So that settles it, go and read this book it's not a hadith or koran but go and read it, do you remember what we agreed?
Liberate wrote:Looks like Mohammed thought the dajjal was a human being, guess you know islam better than he does.
You choose one hadith out of 100 that give the discription of the Dajjal for an arguement ? Again why dont you try reading all the hadeeth that give the discription of the Dajjal
Wait a minute, am I jumping the gun here? do not the vast majority of muslims agree that the dajjal is a human being? Only sects like the ahmadiyya reject the return of Christ and the dajjal. Like I said earlier you have more in common with the ahmadiyya than your sunnis or shias.
As far as I am concerned I think you are using information obtained from other muslims who tend to believe the Dajjal is an actual human being,
Those muslims make up 95% of islam. Who are you to say islamic scholars, interpretors, people like Ibn Kathir are in error and only you understands and correctly interprets the koran.
then to use my information to counteract both of us. Make sure to ask whatever muslim your speaking with if he or she ever read Mishkatul-Masabih, if they never heard of the book and havent read it then obviously they cant speak about a topic that they havent fully understood yet.
So either the other side has terrible reading comprehension or has not read as much as you have, either way you are right and they are wrong. Why don't you enlighten us on this book? Who wrote it? what were their beliefs? Which hadiths did they use or rejectd? Did they use sahih hadiths which you reject but will suddenly use to support your view when it suits you?
Liberate wrote:Am I to believe you quoted a tafsir which you called "Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah " and then proceeded to append to it your own interpretations,interpolations and beliefs directly into the tafsir and then tell us this is what the tafsir says? Why did you call this tafsir "Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah" who is Abdullah? This gives the impression that this is a previous already known tafsir that you are quoting, and surprise surprise it turns out you appended your own words into the tafsir and are unwilling to let us see where you obtained the original. What exactly are you scared of? Are you worried we will see you for a liar when the tafsir says nothing of the sort you made it look like it said?
I like this game when people like you cant understand a simple sentence writen in layman writing, and you expect to understand islam ?
You really are not in a position to be patronising:
"Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah" These were your words, that you typed repeatedly on each line that you interpreted that the koran was not referring to sperm when it mentions sexual fluids coming from between the backbone and the ribs of the thorax.
I showed what you typed to some muslim speakers. They had never heard of Mujaalid. They said it should read: Mujallad meaning a collection or a big book. And what you typed above they interpreted as:
tafsir of the Big Book of samiy abdullah. Who is Samiy Abdullah?. Obviously Abdullah is the name of someone and that is his tafsir that you are quoting.
For our audience this again is the post:
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... llah#38969
and this is the relevant material:
Now you are debating with an Arabic speaker. My reference is the Quran in Arabic not a translation. Now what do those verses mean to me when I read them in their original ? Here it is as follows with its Tafsir:
16:4 He created man (male and female) from a nutfah (a thing that trickles) [ie a sperm]
Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah: ["nutfah" is a feminine verbal noun derived from the root "natafa" meaning to trickle dribble or drop. Male and female "al-insaan" is created from this thing that determines their gender]
32:8 and then He made his (Adam and his Wife) progeny from an extract from contemptible water
Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah : [ the progeny of man is created from an extract drawn from contemptible water or fluid in the human body. There is nothing stating directly or inderectly that this is semen]
35:11 and Allah created you all from dust, and then a nutfah (a thing that strickles), and then He made you all as pairs..
Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah : [ The evolution of the creation of mankind is here spoken of. Allah began his creation of dust and thus his body is composed of dust which is one of the constituents of his body as we see when the body decomposes after death it become as dust once again. The dust element of the body is used to produce the nutfah along with other constituent elements such as water.Then from nutfah the pairs of male and female are created from which determines the gender.]
53:46 from a nutfah (a trickler ie. sperm) when emited
Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah : [ The study of the male repoductive system shows that the sperm is emited from at least 3 parts of the male. 1) from the Scotum 2) Prostate glands 3) and then the penis which druing emition passes through the Epididymis from the Scrotum that pushes it out to the prostate glands that adds fluid ie semen to it and then through the Urethra of the Penis.]
Notice the words highlighted in orange, giving the meaning of Tafsir Al-'Mujaalid'/mujallid Samiy Abdullah and the words it looks like you interpolated in square brackets [].
Why don't you show us where you obtained this tafsir, and explain to us what you mean by quoting it and now pretending you don't understand what I am asking you.