Christian/Muslim ThreadsHow do Muslims view the war in Iraq?In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Santi Yeah, I think that Iran is an OK country, even if we don't agree with how they run things. After all, the Greek government is ruled over by an Orthodox Christian council that can override any democratically ratified law. Same basic structure as Iran, yet we don't sanction Greece. Let countries govern themselves is what I say. However, America can't win with the rest of the world. Either we're TOO involved of we're not involved ENOUGH. We entered WWII two years later than Europe - a fact that Europe won't let us forget until this very day. Yet if we DO try to help things along and assist what we believe is the correct side, we get screamed at for being too interventionist. Which would you prefer? Should we stay over here and shut up? Or should we help people out when they're being oppressed? We GO to Somalia to stop genocide and famine, and we get crapped on for all the terrible things we supposedly did there. We DON'T GO to Rwanda, and the world is appalled at how a rich nation like the United States could have just sat back and let the genocide take place there. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US? HOW ABOUT SOME CLEAR SIGNALS? By the way, if your answer is sit at home and shut up, don't come crying to me when the Israeli Empire stretches from Turkey to the Punjab. In a perfect world, God Almighty would indeed govern us, and His will would be made clear and manifest for all to behold. Unfortunately, this is planet Earth. While you may think that the Quran is perfect, a clear book sent down in Arabic so that we may all understand and all that, Allah forgot to footnote it Himself. It leaves a LOT open to interpretation. Don't believe me? Then why are there so many ahadith explaining its meaning? Shouldn't a perfect book stand alone? Shakespeare is probably the closest thing we have to perfection in English, but I don't need to consult the writings of the "sahaba" Christopher Marlowe or know how Shakespeare (pbuh) used to wash his anus after a bowel movement in order to comprehend the meaning of "Hamlet." When you say that "Allah" is the one who should be governing, what you're really saying is that "top mullahs or a caliph INTERPRETS the meaning of the Quran and the Hadith to determine the will of Allah." Well, right off the bat, you can't guarantee that anyone trusted with such absolute, mind-numbing power would use it responsibly. I mean, except for Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman (debatable), Ali (debatable), and Harun al-Rashid a couple of centuries later, there were really NO good caliphs. They kept huge harems and isolated themselves from their people in expansive palaces for the most part. While in a perfect Islamic theocracy, this would not be the case, history has shown that this form of government is less than perfect. Furthermore, who determines who will be the caliph? Is it hereditary, as it was in the old days? What about the top mullahs? Who determines that they are worthy of their position and worthy to interpret the irrefutable words of Allah Almighty? Unless you're looking for another hereditary Saudi-style kingdom, looks like you're gonna need a few thousand ballot boxes. FURTHERMORE, which system of Islam will predominate? What happens if the Aga Khan declares himself caliph? Should this Islamic theocracy be governed according to Sufi mystical interpretations of Islam? How about a clause in the Islamic constitution declaring that when the 12th imam returns, he shall be made supreme ruler? Will the date that the black scientist Yakub created the white race be made a national holiday? I suppose in most instances, you will follow the teachings of Sunni Islam. After all, Sunni Muslims comprise about 90% of the total ummah. And after all, MAJORITY RULES. Oh, wait. Isn't that democracy? Hmm. “They (Muslims) conduct their affairs by mutual consultation.” (42:38 ) -The Holy Quran. Or was that another abrogated verse? Face it, Lady Fatima...Islam without democracy amounts to a monarchic dictatorship. They are not incompatable. I mean, wasn't Ali supposed to be caliph after Muhammad died? But 3 times, he was shot down. Why? BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE WANTED ABU BAKR, OMAR, AND UTHMAN. If it wasn't a straight one person-one vote system, it was certainly a rudimentary form of democracy by acclaim. Your claim that it is against your religion is absurd; this is, after all, a religion that has a chapter named ASH-SHURA in its holy book. It is also against your religion to live in a non-Muslim country. Keep that in mind as you're climbing Ayers Rock. Islam might give supreme powers to God, but the PEOPLE have to decide who is most fit to interpret His words, how they will be interpreted, and upon what framework those interpretations shall be rendered into law and executed. So by that rationale, you must also be glad for the 13,000 combat deaths suffered by the invading armies of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Palestine during the 1948 invasion of Israel , or the 18,000 combat deaths suffered by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq during the Six Day War of 1967. Serves them right for invading Israel. I'm sure they had their reasons for launching a pre-emptive war, even if they came off looking like ruthless agressors. But please, all I ask is that you be uniform in your standards. http://www.onwar.com/aced/chrono/c1900s ... el1948.htm http://www.onwar.com/aced/chrono/c1900s ... ay1967.htm Anticipation of your Objections to this Statement PLEASE don't bore me with objections about how the Jews stole that land from the Palestinians. YAWN. Populations migrate all the time, and set up governments where they go. If you don't like the establishment of an Israeli state to where millions of Jews had migrated, then please, be uniform in your standards and give the Christians their Eastern Empire back. You invaded without provocation and established an Islamic state. You took one of the most sacred churches in Christendom, the Hagia Sophia, and tainted it with the adhan. You relegated Christians to the status of second class citizens, forced to pay a tax and unallowed to bear arms or fight for their country. You want Israel? Give us back Turkey, PALESTINE, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, EGYPT, Somalia, Albania, Armenia, etc and we'll talk. But don't expect me to feel bad for the poor Muslims who got conquered. Lady Fatima, I'm looking forward to your rebuttal. Believer, keep the faith, you're doing well in this debate. I hope my arguments serve to bolster yours. In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Publius |
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